Building Social Confidence for Professional Growth with Susan Callender

Dr. Christine Li [00:00:00]:
Welcome back to the make time for success podcast. This is episode number 183. If you are someone who has social anxiety or if you are someone who struggles with having your thoughts really interfere with performing at your best. I think this episode was created just for you. I know that it was. My special guest, Susan Callender, is a sought after social confidence coach. She helps a smart, high achieving professionals and business people and personal brands to polish their people skills and fully step into front facing roles free of self doubt, overthinking, and social anxiety that often prevents socially reserved individuals from popping in public. Under Susan's guidance, lifelong, shy, introverted, and socially hesitant adults develop the self confidence they need to add more value, make more money, and create a bigger impact.

Dr. Christine Li [00:00:58]:
Our conversation will give you a really great sense of how she works, and you're going to learn with us some of her social strategies and social skills techniques that will help you see how you might be able to shift your own view of yourself and the energy with which you walk into any room. Let's go learn with Susan together now. Hi. I'm Dr. Christine Li, and I'm a psychologist and a procrastination coach. I've helped thousands of people move past procrastination and overwhelm so they could begin working to their potential. In this podcast, you're going to learn powerful strategies for getting your mind, body, and energy to work together so that you can focus on what's really important and accomplish the goals you want to achieve. When you start living within your full power, you're going to see how being productive can be easy and how you can create success on demand.

Dr. Christine Li [00:02:04]:
Welcome to the Make Time For Success podcast. Hi, my friends. Thank you so much for being here on the Make Time for Success podcast with me and my good friend and colleague, Susan Callender, who is my special guest today. Susan and I have known each other for just a smidge of time, but we connected really easily, really quickly, and really solidly. And I'm really looking forward to this episode because I know I'm gonna get to know her better as well as having her display her wonderful talents, skills, and knowledge with you. She is a social confidence coach, and I know that I myself and many of you who are listening can really benefit from the wisdom that is about to come. So, Susan, welcome to the show.

Susan Callender [00:02:58]:
Thanks so much, Christine. I'm so happy to be here.

Dr. Christine Li [00:03:00]:
So happy to have you here. Could you please start us off right at the moment, right at the stories that are part of your history of becoming a social confidence pro, and what lights you up about it? I wanna hear those pieces of it as well. Please go.

Susan Callender [00:03:21]:
I would say as far as it pertains to my business, I am a lifelong or I should say was a lifelong, painfully shy person. I was that girl who hid behind her mom's legs, who, when her mother wanted to introduce her to people, my mother would tell me that when the doorbell rang, I would run and hide under the sofa, and my bum would be sticking out. I was just always afraid of people. And in the 1st grade, I developed a lisp. And my name is Susan, but I went to school for some reason. I started school saying, and so kids teased me, and that added to my social angst. Now my mother had that corrected with a speech therapist very quickly. However, the speech therapist's name was missus Flone or missus Flone, so I really had to correct that very fast.

Susan Callender [00:04:16]:
But I never did any more work on it. I thought that, okay, now that the kids can no longer tease me, I'll be fine. But you don't realize how deeply embedded that becomes in your subconscious when you're 4 or 5 years old. It can last a lifetime. So fast forward to my professional career, I was in a field where I became very well known. I was in the media quite often, and TV cameras would show up at my business. And I found myself asking an employee to, would you go out there and just say that you're me? And these were let's say I'm a grown adult, and these were sometimes college students who looked nothing like me. But I would beg and plead with them.

Susan Callender [00:05:05]:
Just say you're me. They have no idea. And I would hide in my office. That's when I really started to notice that, oh, I really have a problem. I had a few other embarrassing moment with media, and my friends and my publicist thought that I was very self centered. Because when you are very good at what you do, when you're an expert in your field, when you're a thought leader, nobody expects you to be shy. It just doesn't go together. No one will guess that you're an introvert, that you really have nothing to say because they expect you to be outgoing and talkative and just enjoy being in the spotlight, but that was certainly not the case for me.

Susan Callender [00:05:50]:
Now I will share with you, just to wrap up this little introduction, that I spoke to a corporate group in 2008, and I was asked a question, and at the beginning of my talk, and I burst into tears. And it was complete nervousness that I did not feel in my central nervous system. I had no idea that it was there. I really thought that I had that calm, collected veneer, but beneath it was a lot of nervousness, a lot of worry, a lot of fear about saying the wrong thing, about people thinking I sounded stupid, all of these things that ping pong around your head. And I gathered my thoughts, but I did not feel good about the situation. But this is what saved me and changed my life. A few minutes later, another person stood up to speak to address the group, and she cried. And it was like, what? Somebody else is doing the same thing? This is bizarre.

Susan Callender [00:06:55]:
And it was in that moment, Christine, that I realized that I'm not the only one. I'm not some freakish freakish anomaly that can't get my stuff together. That is a real thing. And at that time, I was doing professional etiquette training for executives, and that was the point where I really transitioned my business into professional presence, executive presence, and to social confident for entrepreneurs, business owners, professionals, and personal brands. In other words, people who have all degrees and skills and experience and expertise, but they're still full of self doubt and fear and worry, and they just don't like to speak in front of people. And that's what brings us together today.

Dr. Christine Li [00:07:40]:
Thank you for sharing those stories. I can't wait to unpack them 1 by 1. If I can keep myself in order about this, but I love the stories. They're really touching because I think each of us could feel your nervousness in those historical moments of your life. Important moments for you, where you felt your body wasn't really cooperating and things were happening and you were feeling unsafe also somewhere. So I wanna cover all of these things with you. Thank you again for sharing these things.

Susan Callender [00:08:15]:
For sure.

Dr. Christine Li [00:08:16]:
Alright. The first question that I came up with was when those college students were working with you and you were asking some of them to cover for you, what was coming up for you at the time? Were you aware of the the thoughts that you were having when you were feeling the nerves as the cameras were showing?

Susan Callender [00:08:38]:
Yeah. I can picture one of the instances right now. I knew that I would I knew, not thought, didn't it wasn't a little concerned. I knew that I would say something stupid. I knew that people that knew me, that respected me as a business person would no longer do business with me because they saw me on TV, and I sounded stupid. But it was the same for print publication. I just did not want to be interviewed. I did not wanna share any information about myself because all of that fear that was created when I was a very young child, it just became that ball of yarn that got more and more tightly wound.

Susan Callender [00:09:24]:
It never let up. It never released. So at this point in my life where I'm asking one of my employees to go ahead and, for the most part, impersonate me, it also brought me back to college where I just had a few friends. I was not the most fun person. I was not that outgoing person at parties. I wouldn't dance. I knew that people would laugh at me dancing. It all went back to childhood, Christine.

Susan Callender [00:09:53]:
I had to release all of those fears in order to move forward, in order to be able now to hold up my hand to another professional who's struggling, who's in the same place where I once was, and just extend my hand and say, come with me. You're safe. I'll show you the way. Alright.

Dr. Christine Li [00:10:13]:
So now I'm gonna jump ahead. Since you're bringing up the topic more intensively about safety, How did you get to a point of releasing all of that pain and all of the fear? I'm anticipating or thinking that it was probably layers of work for you to do, that it wasn't just someone else crying. And if it was, great. But I'm assuming that, you know, that this stuff comes up time and time again because there's so many layers inside of

Susan Callender [00:10:47]:
us all. The crying was indeed a catalyst because I always thought that I was alone. I always thought that nobody could understand me. And I ended up being friendly with that woman for several years. We stayed in touch because that was a very meaningful moment for me. But in terms of safety or just learning how to just make that transformation for myself going from where I was to where I didn't think I could ever be, because I just thought that that was for the super outgoing fun people. I like to mirror people that I saw in a room. I had a friend who was so outgoing.

Susan Callender [00:11:27]:
She could talk to anyone, and so I tried to take on her persona. Maybe I'll go into a room, and I'll just walk up to people, but I felt like a fool because it wasn't me. Uh-huh. So I read all the books, you know, starting with, you know, how to win friends and influence people. What is it that other people know that I don't know? So I I read that book and other books of that ilk. Then I got a coach, and it was truly the coach that showed me that it was not that I'm a stupid person. I knew I wasn't stupid. I know I'm educated, and I knew that I was supremely good at what I did and in my business.

Susan Callender [00:12:10]:
This is in a different field than I'm in now. It was my thought about myself, about my past that were creating this mythical vision of who I was now. But I'm not a 4 year old, 30 year old, 35 year old. I have major clients that want to do business with me, but they're also wondering why I can't speak. So I had to release that and take baby steps, and they are the same baby steps that I share with my clients now to help them just get out of their own head, become present so that they can fully engage with the other person. And it's so transformative, Christine. It really changes your life forever. Once you learn it, you cannot undo it.

Dr. Christine Li [00:13:08]:
Yeah. Because you're released. You're free. You're free. The real parts of you are free. When you were using the word stupid a couple of times, I was thinking of myself, I don't think Susan was thinking that she was actually stupid or even acting stupidly, but the fear was of being treated in an unkind way. The reason I bring that up is because I'm thinking many of our listeners might struggle with a fear that's very similar, whether it's of sounding stupid, coming across as stupid, crying on stage, forgetting their words, looking not as expert as they really are in a conversation or at a presentation or at a review. So could you just talk about that particular fear, I guess, and also the part of you that really knew, you know what, you're way at a different level than the stupid level, that that's not

Susan Callender [00:14:15]:
There's so There's so many things wrapped up in there, Christine, but I'll say that my mom helped me a lot because she was a singer. She sang in some really well known choral groups, And, so I would consider her a professional voice person. And she always supported me. Always 100% supported my efforts and my dreams, and she knew me. She knew me very well. I mentioned before that I was that shy kid, and she helped me to learn to project and to speak to the back of the room and to make sure that my points landed. Yes. She was a singer, but she showed me how to use those same tools as a speaker.

Susan Callender [00:15:02]:
Now when I say the word stupid going back to that, it sounds like such an unkind word. But I have to tell you, just yesterday at a luncheon, a woman that I was sitting across from, when she learned what I did, she told me that she doesn't like to speak up in meetings because she doesn't want to sound stupid. And I'll tell you, I have a client roster from around the globe, and it doesn't matter whether you are in Dublin or Dubai. People say the same things. They don't want to sound stupid. They don't want to be mocked by their peers. And so it's a thought that comes from different forms of social anxiety. And so it it sounds so unkind, but it's a real thing, but you can release yourself from it.

Susan Callender [00:15:50]:
Now I don't have those feelings anymore. Now I'll just speak extemporaneously. I may make a mistake, but I'll no longer freak out about

Dr. Christine Li [00:15:58]:
it. Yeah. Yeah. I I do think it's a very powerful block when you have any sort of fear that you're gonna come across in some way that you don't want. Right? We don't even have to be talking on the level of stupid. We can talk about right? We're we're coming across as obnoxious or haughty or lazy or whatever your personal fear is. So in general, I think we're talking about limiting beliefs about who we can be in any one moment and also the just the the gigantic concept of fear and and what we think comparison.

Susan Callender [00:16:34]:
Yeah. Yeah. Comparison plays a a major role too because when you are in an organization and you have very extroverted colleagues, and they're always talking. They're always running their mouths. And sometimes, it's there was a time where I thought it was very much a North American construct where we really value that outgoing person that who's always doing the talking. They're making sure that there's no, you know, long, uncomfortable silences, but they also become rewarded. And the more clients that I gather from different countries, I'm finding that it's a phenomenon as well. There were years ago, that was not the case, let's say, in Japan, but now it is that we just value that person will that will just save the day by having something to say, but they may not be they may not be the brightest in their own.

Susan Callender [00:17:27]:
But we just like to hear the sound of someone's voice. And sometimes you don't want it to be us.

Dr. Christine Li [00:17:35]:
Yeah. And I I guess that example makes me think there is some sort of energetic power of having confidence. And so the person may not be saying the smartest thing of the conversation, but their confidence level can kind of carry them through and get them recognized. So how let's let's shift a little bit to how you work with your clients and students. How do you work on the confidence piece? Are there specific skills and trainings that you take them through? Is it more kind of like a conversation over time that develops? How do

Susan Callender [00:18:12]:
you work? In one to one coaching, it's very much a bes program that's designed for that particular individual. So I mentioned that, let's say, for me, I know that I would say that I was born shy. From my very earliest years, I knew that was me. For someone else, it could be somebody being unkind to them in middle school. It could be being passed over for a promotion when you're 27, but you knew that you deserved it. But what happened that made your manager overlook you in favor of someone else? We all have those things. It's like a switch that clicks in our brain that makes us change personalities. And so it's very much individual for people.

Susan Callender [00:19:00]:
So I truly address them and their needs. I don't want it to even sound like, well, this is a cookie cutter program, and it worked for Christine. So this will work for you as well. So they really hear and see that they're able to embody that person who first took on that persona and then start to separate themselves from it. Now let's look for a moment at the difference between therapy and coaching. Just very briefly, I'm not a therapist, but I don't deeply focus on the past. As a coach, I see their potential. I know that they can be in there, let's say, social Shangri La, that place where they are just always confident and comfortable, where they know that their energy, their vibration dictates the treatment they get that they receive.

Susan Callender [00:19:59]:
The energy that they bring into a room is what's going to make people's heads turn. And when they don't have that, that's making people just back up or push them away so we get what we give very much so. Also, being able to visualize what the outcome is that you want is a very important part of my program. I believe that social priming is the number one way to become socially confident and to have that social transformation. Because when you prime your brain, when you visualize what you want to do, when you visualize going into a cafe and speaking to the barista and saying, good morning, Molly. I would like a medium latte with skim milk, whatever it is. And just being able to say that person's name and having eye contact rather than mumbling it, rather than just saying the order and then just stepping to the side. Little steps like that start that transformation.

Susan Callender [00:21:06]:
It allows you to hear your voice, then you do the same thing once you arrive at your office, let's say. You greet the security guards. You say good morning to the receptionist. You do all these small things, but you visualize it beforehand because so many people are so in their heads. There are far too many earbuds on the street and in our offices, in our workplaces that we assume that people aren't even paying attention to us, but they are. And you want them to feel your energy so that you're included. That's the point that I want to make to you.

Dr. Christine Li [00:21:44]:
Yeah. Beautiful. I I love that phrase, social priming, that you're really just you're you're in charge of getting this machine ready and being perfectly set for that coffee order or for that entry into the building, whatever it is, and it will be okay. I think that's part of the I'm assuming that's part of the process too. Right? Understanding that it's going to be a safe process, uncomplicated, and,

Susan Callender [00:22:12]:
Because you've seen it first in your mind. Yeah. It's the the same reason why you don't get lost on your way to work, because you've seen it in your you see it, and so you drive that route, or you take that train. But if you don't bother to think ahead, then everything will you'll be caught off guard constantly in the course of the day. So would you know that when you have a meeting at 10 AM, you're going to walk into the room, and you're going to say, if there's one person in there, I'm going to say, good morning, Larry. And if there's 2 people in there, I'm going to say, good morning, Larry. Good morning, Kim. And if there's 3 people, I'm going to say good morning to each one.

Susan Callender [00:22:52]:
But maybe if there's ten, I'll just say good morning to the person on my left and right when I sit down at the table. And then that's exactly what happens. But what doesn't happen is that you walk into the room and just go grab your bagel or muffin and sit down and then scroll your phone until the meeting begins because that is not what you visualized or primed your mind to do. Okay. Speaking of things happening that you didn't prime

Dr. Christine Li [00:23:21]:
your mind to do, what happens when your body is in overdrive and your nervous system is acting up. You've done maybe a little bit of priming, maybe you're a new student with you, and you are suddenly really noticing your heartbeat or the goosebumps or whatever expression your body is giving you. Those symptoms and those signs can be super distracting and powerful and overwhelming. How do you help people to understand that occurrence? And also, how do you help them to move through those nervous system eruptions?

Susan Callender [00:23:58]:
Sure. I'd love to share this with you. So that let's call that nervousness or anxiousness or which is a feeling or an emotion. It's impossible to have a feeling or an emotion, let's say, being nervous or feeling anxious, without having a thought, Christine. So you cannot wake up in the morning. Let's say you open your eyes and it's really light outside and you panic because it's too light outside. You should be waking up when it's still dark. So if you you can't lay in bed and say, oh my goodness.

Susan Callender [00:24:33]:
I'm late. Before you open your eyes and see the light outside, you need to have the thought. Oh, you you need to see the light, the daylight, and then have the thought, oh my goodness. It's too light. I must have overslept. To create that feeling of anxiousness. Oh my goodness. I'm gonna be late for the meeting.

Susan Callender [00:24:50]:
So if you were sitting in a, let's say, a meeting, which because I deal primarily with professionals and business people and some sort of business setting, let's say, and you feel that nervousness, anxiousness, sweaty palms, you don't know what to say next, you want to be a part of the group, but you, you know, you just want to blend smoothly, stop and change your thought. Oh, I belong here. Oh, wow. Look. I get to be in this group. Who's in the room? Look at me. I really made it. This is gonna be great.

Susan Callender [00:25:28]:
I am so grateful to have been included is a very different thought than, oh my goodness. What am I gonna do? Oh, I don't belong here. Oh, this is just ridiculous. I should quit. Oh, why did I accept the job? Yeah. So your thoughts inform your feelings. Now you want to see the outcome that you get. Your thoughts will always create your outcomes.

Susan Callender [00:25:52]:
So if you change your thought based on that circumstance that you're in, you know that your thought is going to create that feeling, but it's the feeling that propels you into action, and the action is going to get you the result. So when you feel badly about yourself, you're going to feel nervous. And when you're nervous, what are you going to do? You're going to be silent. And when you're silent and you're in that meeting, in the end, what's the end result? Did you add value? Are people looking at you like you are a superstar? No. They're like, what's she doing in here? That was odd. They could have invited somebody else who really wanted to be here. However, when you have the thought, this is my chance, something I really wanna share, and I'm just going to say it. That makes you feel valued.

Susan Callender [00:26:49]:
That's an emotion. When you feel valued, you lean forward. You let people know that you're about to say something. Maybe as an opener, you say, Christine, that was a great point. I'm so glad you shared that. Allow yourself to just hear your voice, just using a compliment for another person. And then when you lean in just a bit, people see that you have something to say, and then say it. What's the outcome or the result then? Well, you added value.

Susan Callender [00:27:21]:
1 microstep at a time. You don't have to come barreling out of the gate and not shut up one day, then everyone will say, put Xi on. But just a small step, because after that meeting, your central nervous system will feel better. It'll feel that confidence, and you want to create momentum. So then you walk past someone in the hall, and you give them direct eye contact. You say, how's your day going? Or do you have any plans for the weekend? Because you're moving off that same energy that you already created in that meeting that you just left.

Dr. Christine Li [00:27:58]:
I love that. The the examples you gave were so were so bright, and brightly illustrative of how easily and quickly we can transform our own energy and then affect the people that we are in meetings and conversation with. I love that. And I love that the the demonstrations that you gave on video that I could I could see Susan, and she was really literally leaning in. And it has an effect. I felt like I learned that as a a tip from you just in the moment. So thank you for these wonderful examples of how you work with your clients. It's very sensitive.

Dr. Christine Li [00:28:34]:
It's very loving. And it's very supportive all at once. And I think those are the characteristics of a wonderful coach and a wonderful coaching experience. So thank you for demonstrating how that will work with us. Could you share with us how our listeners can stay in touch with you, get to work with you, and maybe what their first step should be if they have the desire to kind of improve their own social confidence.

Susan Callender [00:29:04]:
Well, certainly. So I have a number of ways that listeners can receive free information that will help them move the needle in their social transformation. The website is socialconfidencepro.com. One of the most popular topics is conversation skills. People wanna be able to make small talk and more extended conversations. And I have the ultimate list of conversation starters, and you can get that at socialconfidencepro.comforward/starters. I have a group coaching program that will be opening soon. That is called the School of Social Mastery.

Susan Callender [00:29:42]:
And in that program, people will be able to come in and get coached and have hot seats and just have their issues focused on, but at the same time, learning from other people who are in the same position, learning that you're not alone and that there's help for you, and you can either receive that 1 on 1 coaching in a 1 on 1 coaching container rather or through the group program. And if they follow me through Instagram, TikTok, or LinkedIn, they will know when they can join that program. Terrific. But right now, they can get on the priority list.

Dr. Christine Li [00:30:19]:
Okay. Terrific. We will have all that information in the show notes that accompany this wonderful episode. And could you share that first step, that first kind of easy, let's try this, I really loved what Susan was saying kind of step. What comes to mind for you as as something that all of our listeners who are interested in this area, what can they do?

Susan Callender [00:30:42]:
The very first step is truly self awareness and not so much focusing on yourself, but your environment, And this is a technique that lends itself to improv, and it's called your base reality. Who am I in this particular circumstance? Where am I? What is the setting? And who is this person that I'm talking to in this space? So if you are in a business environment, you are, let's say, a manager. You are in your office, and you're talking to a new hire. But if you step outside of that space, you could be, if you're at your child's school, in that setting, you're a parent. The other person is the principal. The setting is a school environment. Those settings inform what you can discuss. So you're not going to discuss with the school principal something that has to do with your business life because it's not appropriate in that moment.

Susan Callender [00:31:49]:
So when we are self aware and we fully understand where all of our senses are are just lit up, And we know where we are and what's appropriate and what will sound true because this is where we are at the moment. It just makes all interactions so much more smooth. You don't have to think about anything. You don't have to plan ahead.

Dr. Christine Li [00:32:15]:
That's beautiful. I love the simple wisdom that you share, the very powerful effects that you get for people who are struggling with this very powerful stuff. Right? It's a powerful topic of limiting beliefs and anxiety and physical reactions and then our public presentation. You that you are dealing with a large list of very high intensity topics actually in the most sensitive and beautiful of ways. So thank you for sharing your work, your life's work with us on this show today. And thank you so much for being here, and I can't wait to continue our connection off the podcast. Thanks again, Susan.

Susan Callender [00:32:59]:
Likewise, Christine. And I'll just say in closing, the struggle is in your mind. You can move past it. Been my pleasure to be with you today.

Dr. Christine Li [00:33:06]:
Thank you. Beautiful last words. My friends, you have all just been educated. Let's use this education for good. Thank you again for being a listener of this show, and I will see you next week. Take care. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Make Time For Success podcast. If you enjoyed what you heard, you can subscribe to make sure you get notified of upcoming episodes.

Dr. Christine Li [00:33:31]:
You can also visit our website, make time for success podcast.com, for past episodes, show notes, and all the resources we mentioned on the show. Feel free to connect with me over on Instagram too. You can find me there under the name procrastination coach. Send me a DM and let me know what your thoughts are about the episodes you've been listening to. And let me know any topics that you might like me to talk about on the show. I'd love to hear all about how you're making time for success. Talk to you soon.