Communicate with Impact: Learn the Magnetic Speaking Formula with Heather Sager

Dr. Christine Li [00:00:00]:
Hi there, and welcome back

Dr. Christine Li [00:00:02]:
to the make time for success podcast. This is episode number 186. In today's episode, we're going to talk about all things speaking and communication and comfort, comfort with using your own voice and being your authentic self when you are engaged in public speaking. My special guest today happens to be an expert in all of these areas. Her name is Heather Sager. Heather is a speaking and sales coach and business mentor who helps her clients to turn their voice into their best marketing asset for growing their businesses. She is a former consulting executive turned global speaker and trainer. She's also the host of the Hint of Hustle podcast and the creator of the Speaker Society.

Dr. Christine Li [00:00:51]:
She's a mom of 3 boys and lives with her family in beautiful Bend, Oregon. I had so much fun getting to know Heather and learning from her live in this episode, and I cannot wait for you to enjoy this episode too. Let's go listen to the episode together now.

Dr. Christine Li [00:01:13]:
Hi. I'm Dr. Christine Li, and I'm a psychologist and a procrastination coach. I've helped thousands of people move past procrastination and overwhelm so they could begin working to their potential. In this podcast, you're going to learn powerful strategies for getting your mind, body, and energy to work together so that you can focus on what's really important and accomplish the goals you want to achieve. When you start living within your full power, you're going to see how being productive can be easy and how you can create success on demand. Welcome to the Make Time For Success podcast.

Dr. Christine Li [00:01:59]:
Hi, everyone. It is Christine. I am so excited for today's wonderful, talented, and sparkling guest. Her name is Heather Sager. She is a business and sales coach and a speaking coach, and I am so happy to be able to have her on the show because I have been dying to learn from her, and I can't wait to get to know her more and to have you learn from her and get to know her as well. Heather, welcome to the show.

Heather Sager [00:02:29]:
Thank you so much. I am thrilled to be here. It's been a long time coming, you and I finally having a meetup.

Dr. Christine Li [00:02:34]:
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. And I'm very, very excited about this. I have heard a lot about you, a lot about your programs. I know you're buzzing about. I know your personal life is very busy with you welcoming your 3rd child.

Dr. Christine Li [00:02:52]:
And just do me a favor and just start us off with kind of what we need to know about you at the start so that we can start a whole conversation.

Heather Sager [00:03:02]:
Oh, there are so many things that I know we'll get into it. But probably the most important is you'll find for me pretty quickly that I am a speaking coach, but I tend to break all the traditional rules around trying to speak a certain way or be polished or professional or have this cloak of corporate speak that I actually came from. I'm kind of a straight shooter. Let's have fun while we learn. I have really high self awareness, and I don't take myself very seriously. So as we get into the episode today, I'm probably going to say some things that'll make you, like, spit out your water and laugh, probably unexpected. I also am not perfect. I'll use filler words when I get excited.

Heather Sager [00:03:43]:
I talk super fast. But I think what you need to know is everything that we're gonna talk about today when it comes to communication and showing up, for me, it's all rooted in experience. It from the last 23 years, I have professionally been speaking on stages in some form or fashion. And I'm just super passionate about helping other people learn how to speak with more confidence and less trying to be a different person. And most importantly, I work with business owners primarily, so I teach people how to make their words make money. So that's a little bit about me. I have a couple boys at home, 3 little kids. I just had my 3rd baby at 40 years old.

Heather Sager [00:04:26]:
So I'm, like, back in the diapers phase. So I'm an open book. Let's just let's jump in.

Dr. Christine Li [00:04:32]:
Okay. I'm always up for talking about babies, but we can leave that in. Congratulations again. And I am very curious about the cloak thing and about having fun. What are your thoughts about how speaking became such a cloak thing where you need to sound professional and you had have to look and seem a certain way and how that tends to trip people up. What is your experience?

Heather Sager [00:05:02]:
Yeah. So my experience is, primarily back in corporate. So I had a corporate career. I'm in a really good run. I was the vice president of learning and development for a very high profile management organization in the health care space That's a lot of words and a lot of jargon, but I was on stage all the time. And I ran the training team who was on stage all the time, and we work with doctors. And we all know, like hello. I mean, doctors the profession was the hearing care space, so ear doctors.

Heather Sager [00:05:32]:
And they very much wanted things to be polished and professional. I mean, these were very, very well educated. And the company I work for, we were all in our twenties. So, I mean, these people had decades over us. And so in order for them to take us seriously, there was this idea that, like, oh, we have to be a certain way. Like, we have to use the big words and sound smart. And we think that if people think that we're more quote unquote serious or polished and professional, then they'll take us seriously. They'll think we're more credible.

Heather Sager [00:06:02]:
And what I've actually found is that couldn't be further from the truth. When I was promoted into a VP role, I think I was, like, 27 years old. So I was 1 of the only women at the table. I remember traveling to some really big meetings for these different corporate companies that we worked with. And they were all white men in the room in their, like, fifties sixties. And they were all using big words and talking like all this jargon. Right? And I will never forget I had the courage to raise my hand and ask a question and then I translated their answer out of jargon speak. And I I don't remember what it was about, but I was like, oh, so you mean and I said it in super, like, plain spoken language, and I think I used a metaphor.

Heather Sager [00:06:45]:
And the entire room erupted laughing, like, who is this girl and why is she like, who like, that's so unprofessional. It was not unprofessional. It was just real language. And what was interesting is after that meeting, I had more of these men walk up to me on the break and be like, your approach to this is so refreshing. I just started laughing because I'm like, it's not about sounding smart. I don't care about sounding smart. I care that other people understand what I'm trying to say. And that's what I found is over the years is when I work with business owners, especially coming out of corporate, they think they have to sound smart, but it's not about that.

Heather Sager [00:07:22]:
People don't trust you because you sound smart. People trust you because you sound real. They're not thinking, like, what are you hiding? What are you trying to cover up? They're just going, I like this person. I'm resonating with what they're saying. Like, I wanna learn more. So I think we could all, benefit from shaking off that jargony factor or trying to be perfect. It's okay to use filler words. It's okay if you talk fast.

Heather Sager [00:07:46]:
It's okay if you say random analogies or go off on tangents. People want real as long as it's relevant to them.

Dr. Christine Li [00:07:54]:
That was a beautiful explanation, and I love the example. And I am curious, is there something about you or your history where you just knew that that was gonna be, a, your best way of communicating and, b, something that you could teach other people? Was there something that happened in your life or just knowing that you came to this world with about authenticity and communication?

Heather Sager [00:08:22]:
Yeah. I well, so I was super shy growing up. And I remember in kindergarten, I my report card, like, I I still have it in the little, like, things my mom saved, But my report card was like, Heather is a joy to have in class. If only she would speak out loud. I was so sorry. I didn't talk. But I have very, very clear memories as a kid growing up that in my friend groups, I was known as a social butterfly and not because I'm super outwardly, social. I'm actually an introvert.

Heather Sager [00:08:52]:
But what was fascinating was I was the person who would say the thing that needed to be said. And I learned that growing up. I mean, down to the point where I remember on look at recess in the second grade, 1 of my friends lost their necklace on the playground, and the teachers were like, we all have to go in. Sorry. You're screwed. Pretty something like that. And I remember being the person that stood up to the teacher, not rudely, not out of disrespect, but I stood my ground because my friend was really sad that her, like, very fancy I'm gonna air quote fancy, necklace that her parents had bought her for her birthday, she wanted to find it. And I think missus Carter could wait.

Heather Sager [00:09:33]:
We were just coloring in class, so why couldn't we? So from that memory and then paired with so many others, my friends ended up coming to me when someone needed to say something to an adult or they needed to have a difficult conversation. They would come to me and say, well, Heather, what would you say? And I just never had this I guess, I never had this worry that if I said if I said something, it would make somebody mad or make them uncomfortable. I just stood in the, but what's right? What needs to be said that's going to help the people around me? So, naturally, that's just been part of my personality. And then fast forward in my professional career, as I mentioned, my job was speaking on stages. And I remember the first time I spoke on stage in corporate. So I mentioned this company was in the health care space working in hearing care. And I had gotten promoted in this job, and my job was to be the person who opened these live events. And I'm staring at this room, again, 27, 28 years old, people 2 3 decades and like ahead of me And I'm like, how are they gonna listen to me even the best training in the world? They're still gonna begin like, but what does she know? So I did the only thing I knew how to do and that was sharing my story.

Heather Sager [00:10:48]:
You see, what most people don't know about me is I was born with a rare genetic condition where I have a hearing loss and I wear hearing aids. And most people don't think someone in their twenties, thirties, or now forties, wear hearing aids. We think of our grandparents. But for me, I've had a hearing loss now. It's been probably 15 years. I struggle to understand other people and rely on these little widgets. Well, it just was a beautiful coincidence that I found myself in a role where I was talking to the doctors Who took care of ears for a living? So the first time I got on stage instead of trying to be smart or fancy or try to tell them all the things I just told them my story and I shared with them the struggle that I'd had and how it was difficult for me to build friendships in college because I couldn't understand people or I had a natural tendency to be shy. Because if I started conversations, if I couldn't hear the answer, people would think I sounded stupid because I just stood there with a blank face.

Heather Sager [00:11:43]:
So I just shared that. I shared kind of the real scenario. And, honestly, that was 1 of the biggest moments for me. It actually catapulted my speaking career and what I do today, because just sharing my story, but in a way that was relevant to them, It just moved mountains. They had never seen someone on stage before be that authentic. I'm pretty confident I cried in that story and made everybody else cry kind of became my signature thing. But it had to be a little bit of that of having the loud voice as a kid paired with sharing my story. I just did it so many times.

Heather Sager [00:12:17]:
I've just now gotten really, really good at it.

Dr. Christine Li [00:12:19]:
Yeah. Thank you for sharing that story. I was tipped off to that story because I had done a little bit of preparation for this episode, and I just wanna share. I am a user of hearing aids as well.

Heather Sager [00:12:32]:
I didn't know that.

Dr. Christine Li [00:12:33]:
Yeah. I mean, I've never disclosed either, so there would be no reason to know that. But I think I say that because I'm noting the courage that it must have taken you to be on stage and be weaving all these parts of yourself. Right? Being a little bit daunted by the situation, being very personal, and yet also having to figure out how to be convincing, persuasive, authoritative, all of these things, and then you knowing in your heart, this is where I'm supposed to be. This is kind of the beginnings of a big career for me. So, could you talk about the courage piece a bit? Because you also mentioned you tend not to have the worry about, am I gonna make someone upset if I say something? And I was thinking to myself, well, she's a rare 1 of that. So I guess my questions are, could you talk about courage? And Yeah. Could you talk about the rest of us who really do have this worry about upsetting people and saying the wrong thing and looking unprofessional and things like

Heather Sager [00:13:44]:
that. Yeah. I guess I should clarify that. The the thought still enters my mind, like, all the time. Of course, I'm worried of what other people think. Of course, I'm afraid of messing up in public. Of course, I'm concerned that I might offend someone or say the wrong thing or just get it wrong entirely. Those are definitely.

Heather Sager [00:14:02]:
Right? This courage is a muscle, and it let me break it down to 1 really simple thing. And it's rooted in, you know, how so many people are terrified of public speaking. People are public there's a joke by Jerry Seinfeld that's like more people would rather be in the coffin at a funeral than giving the eulogy. Yeah. Right? It's like a very, very famous joke. People are just freaked out by it. And even those I mean, I work with a lot of clients. Some are terrified.

Heather Sager [00:14:28]:
Some are, like, not freaked out by speaking, but they still always get nervous when they show up. So put this in there, whether you're giving a presentation or maybe you're you need to have an important conversation with someone in your life. There's these butterflies and these nerves. And the dialogue on our head, it goes something like, what if I mess up? What if they get mad at me? Like what if I look like an idiot? What if I say it wrong? What if I don't know the list goes on and on our internal dialogue is real I mean, it's real good at that narrative. Right? But what I like to to help people understand is if you really pay attention to that dialogue, the most common word throughout all of those statements is the word IIII what if I fail? What if I mess up? What if I look stupid? What if I insert whatever thing here? They're all self focused. And what I learned very, very early on in my life, but also my career, is that when you take the focus off of you and you start asking questions around the people around you, you become curious. And I find the more curious I become, the more courageous I act. So let's put that back in the context of if you get nervous speaking or you have fear around public speaking, what if instead of worrying about us sounding like an idiot or brambling on too long or people thinking blah blah blah about us, what if instead we were thinking like, what might this person be feeling today? What might have happened 10 minutes before our conversation? What are they struggling with right now? What are they insecure about? What are they worried about? What are they up dreaming about late at night? If we start getting curious around the person who we're ultimately going to talk to, You notice that when you start asking these questions, and for me in the context of a business presentation, if I'm asking, oh, how might be how might Christine be feeling today? She might be nervous about this presentation, or she might be feeling blah blah blah.

Heather Sager [00:16:30]:
And if I start pointing out around how you're feeling related to speaking, I have great experience of that. I have a lot of knowledge on that. Instantly, my courage starts going up because I just want to help you. And what happens is we're way more willing to take action when we're thinking about helping another person. So this courage thing, I'm not just out here popping off my opinions because I don't care what people think of me. I'm actually pretty reserved with my opinions. I don't know if you've realized this. In our business coaching program that we're in, Christine, I don't speak up a lot.

Heather Sager [00:17:04]:
I don't raise my hand. At the live events, you'll probably catch me say maybe 5 words on the microphone. I am not the person raising my hand until I know something needs to be set. I'll wait. But when I notice something and I feel like, oh, this will help someone else in the room, I will raise my hand. And I still get nervous to do it, but when I do, people pay attention. And it really is because I come from that place of curiosity of how I can help and serve even if just 1 other person around me, even if it's just that 1 little girl on the playground who wanted her necklace back, like that matters to me. I'm willing to be uncomfortable for her, and that's what I would encourage anyone to think of Mariah.

Heather Sager [00:17:48]:
It's not about you just doing the brave thing. It's about you doing the thing that you want to help another person if that's important to you.

Dr. Christine Li [00:17:56]:
Yes. I love it. And I love also the point about it being a muscle. Right? We we might be born with a tendency towards things, but we still have to develop the muscle. We still have to go to those conferences. We still have to step on the stages, and we still have to keep our senses open to who does need our help, our specific voice. Speaking of that issue, I think I'm gonna craft another question, which is what about the person who feels like they are in maybe a professional situation or a personal situation where it would be good if they showed up more, but they're not feeling that they have the material, that they they don't have the raw goods. They don't have the intelligent, the opinions, the experience of speaking or or making an argument.

Dr. Christine Li [00:18:48]:
I can think of many people who come from that. Right? What would you say to those people where the muscle is kinda weak and they need some some strengthening and some exercises? What would you do with them?

Heather Sager [00:19:02]:
Yes. Okay. I love love this question, and I'm gonna introduce another angle to think about with this 1. So even if you've developed the courage and you're doing this, let's say it's been a while since you've done it, it feels like you're starting all over again. So the example for me is so right now, I have an online brand. I have a podcast similar to you. I'm showing up on social, but I have taken a hiatus here over the last 6 months as I had a new baby. Prior to this baby coming, I was pretty consistent showing up on video and recording podcasts.

Heather Sager [00:19:36]:
But coming back into it, oh, my gosh. It it feels so hard. I'll sit down to do a video or do something, and then I'll start talking. And then I'm like, I'll even go, like, what the heck are you saying, Heather? Like, this is stupid. This is gonna help no 1. Like, what are we here? And then I'll give up and go away. Real time right now, I'm on a hiatus on my podcast for the last 8 weeks because I just needed to with this little 1 at home. And I share that because a lot of people hear this idea of, like, how do I have the courage to speak up? And they think about it as his destination that 1 day I'll I'll just become a great communicator or 1 day I'll just be really good at tough conversations.

Heather Sager [00:20:14]:
And and as we said, it really is a muscle. And just like with working out, you can go through a phase where you're in the fittest shape of your life, but if you don't maintain it, you lose it, and it sucks to start back over again. Right? So let me give you let's get tactical here for a second. Media formula that helps me when I'm feeling that like, I don't even know what to say or I don't even wanna bother or I'm starting it and it feels fumbly, like, this is what I go to. And I I call it my magnetic speaking formula, and it's 4 elements. And this is what I teach my clients all the time. It's like, if you wanna become a better speaker, whether you're just getting started or you just wanna get better communication skills or you wanna go pro level, it doesn't really matter. There's these 4 areas that we play within.

Heather Sager [00:21:02]:
And these are the 4 areas that I would say, do I actually have something in this area? And if you don't, that's probably why you're not taking action or getting the results of the conversation that you're after. So the 4 things, super simple, are purpose, structure, story, and style. So simply put, purpose is what is the goal of this? Why are you having a conversation? What's the intended outcome you're after? What do you want people to do if you're given a presentation at the end of your talk? And it's not just, I want them to buy my thing. Said different like, a lot of people are like, well, I'm not a business owner. I'm not selling something. Anytime you're having a conversation, like, a difficult conversation or maybe you're having a, at work, you're speaking up in a meeting, what you wanna think about is what am I after here? Why am I speaking up? What's the intended goal that I'm doing here? Because unless you're just in a conversation where you're speaking out loud, you do have a goal. 1 of the times, though, or a lot of the times, is people are just afraid to declare that goal because they don't want other people to be like, oh, you're salesy or, oh, you're like trying to bait and hook me. And it's just if you're just clear of what you're trying to do, it's going to create a lot more clarity for you around what you need to do and what you should talk about.

Heather Sager [00:22:27]:
So purpose, I talk a lot about that. I know it sounds a little fluffy, but I find that the majority of people that I work with, they lack a reason for speaking. They lack the clarity around what they're after with it.

Dr. Christine Li [00:22:41]:
I don't think that's fluffy at all, by the way. I'm gonna interject. I'm just thinking as a podcast host, there are times when I'd wanna say stuff, but there's no there's no central something, And I get nowhere with it. Like, here's a thing.

Heather Sager [00:22:55]:
You know, you just need

Dr. Christine Li [00:22:56]:
to take a pause. Because until there's a core structure, it's really difficult to kind of get an argument across or make an impact or sound coherent. Or make a point. Yeah.

Heather Sager [00:23:09]:
It's like, what what's your point? Well, you're trying to make a point, but what is the point?

Dr. Christine Li [00:23:13]:
Like You gotta know first, and I I'm so on board with point number 1. Just wanted to say that. Go ahead.

Heather Sager [00:23:18]:
And it's and it's with that. Let's just use an example. My okay. 1 of 1 of the only fights my husband and I ever have, we've been together for 15, 16 years. We have the same fight over and over again. And it's like this is pre kids. What do you wanna eat? And we would go out in downtown Portland with just, like, like, the nights if we would just go meander around and say, oh, let's just find something. You find something, and then it's like the wait time's too long.

Heather Sager [00:23:44]:
Well, I don't want to wait. Do you want to wait? Let's go somewhere else and like the less Directional you are, but the more stress you have on yourself that I'm hangry and I want to eat Like it just doesn't work. So we're like, no, we need to have a destination in mind So we create a little like jar around. Okay Let's write down all of our favorite things in it. And then when we can't make a decision, let's just pull from it. So the decision is made. Yeah, I think it happens a lot when conversations too. It's like if we're just meandering trying to see what happens, that's fine when you're talking to your friends.

Heather Sager [00:24:14]:
That's fine when you're talking with your family or you're just connecting with someone. But if you're in a business conversation or if you're giving someone feedback or if you're parenting and trying to teach your kids different lessons, we have to be a little less wishy washy and more, let me pause here for a moment. Let me take 10 minutes to ground myself and actually ask, what do I want out of this conversation? What might this other person be thinking? What might they push back on? Let's consider their perspective before we start, and I promise you, it'll make the conversation. It might not be less comfortable. It still might be hard, but at least you'll be more prepared, and that's gonna give you a little more courage to start.

Dr. Christine Li [00:24:55]:
I love it. And I'm glad your marriage is is great because that's what you're arguing about. I'm thinking this is a good thing to have arguments

Heather Sager [00:25:08]:
Okay. So let's talk about the second 1 is structure. Right? So structure and what I mean by that simply put is just what's the cadence that you deliver your information? How do you start the conversation? How do you start the talk, the presentation? When you're on an interview, what's the first thing out of your mouth? When someone asks you a question, what do you say first, and then where do you go? How do you end it? It's very simply put, what's the beginning, middle, and end? So many people, when they deliver presentations, they maybe plan their opening, but they spend all the time in the meet. What's the gist? What's the what's the juicy stuff that I want to say? But they don't think about how they're gonna set it up. They don't think about how they're gonna end it or if they do, it's usually I'm running out of time. So let me speed up real quick and just kind of mention the thing I wanna mention, but I don't wanna make anybody mad or So I'm just gonna leave it up here, and then I'm gonna go. And that's not how you create magnetic moments with people so that they actually take action on the things that you want. So spending some time to understand the art and science of structuring your communication, it matters.

Heather Sager [00:26:15]:
You have to know how to structure things. And when I say structure, I don't mean scripting. I don't mean having, like, a fill in the blank badlib style thing. That is the fastest way to tune someone out, but it's understanding, okay, when I speak to someone, how do I create connection? What's the sequence in which I deliver information so they might be more open to hearing it, especially if it's different than something that they previously have known. So structure, that's an area that I I mean, that's what I teach. Right? I can geek out about that for days. But just understanding, okay. Let me think about what's the order in which I'm gonna deliver the information or ask questions that matters tremendously.

Heather Sager [00:26:53]:
Yes.

Dr. Christine Li [00:26:54]:
I also wanna introspect here because before we pressed record, I told Heather that I have a way of trying to keep my episodes kind of on the short side, and I like not to waste people's time. But what she's just teaching us here with point number 2 about structure is that if you spend that few minutes just to think, how do I want the other person to be affected by what I'm saying? That it's not really worrying about how long you're taking with them. It's like, can I have them understand what I need them to understand, or can I convince them of something that I need to convince them of such an important lesson? Thank you. You've just taught me a really good 1. Alright. Keep going. Number 3.

Heather Sager [00:27:37]:
Well, and here's the the simple thing, though, is we can make that practical. People think like, oh, now I have to go learn all these fancy things or I don't have time to prepare, so I just won't do it. And I mean, okay, Real talk. I'm not gonna make you read this, but I have a blank piece of white paper in front of me, pen and paper. This is what is in front of me right now, and 5 minutes before I joined today, I wrote down a couple notes for myself. I grounded myself and said, okay. What are some of the things that I think might be helpful? And then when we started, I asked you a couple questions around your audience. I wrote those down so that, okay, I have a plan in my mind.

Heather Sager [00:28:14]:
I don't know what questions you're going to ask. Right? This is a unique situation, but I'm still prepared. I have thought through what are some things that I can share. And because I speak on these things all the time, I know that when I talk about, for example, nerves and courage, I have a sequence of how I explain it and the example I use and the tips that I give because I've delivered it before. So that's what I'm talking about structure. You can just do that on a Post it note. Just write down, if I only had a couple minutes with them, what are the 3 things that I want them to take away? What do I not wanna forget to tell them? If you just take that moment and ask yourself before a conversation or a presentation, it will help you then filter out the, like, forever rambles that happen just to get into it from the start. Right? So just write out what suggest, what do I wanna say, and that'll set you up for a lot of success.

Dr. Christine Li [00:29:04]:
Love it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. 3rd is story.

Heather Sager [00:29:09]:
This one's my favorite. Have you noticed how I've given you multiple stories in our conversation today? Yes. Yeah. Well, I think quite a lot of people do, especially when you were saying that you don't wanna take up too many people's time. I hear this a lot from my my clients who are really powerful educators. They're well educated themselves, and they have a lot of experience and they just wanna share what they know with other people. And they don't want to waste people's time because they know that time is the most precious resource that we all have. So what happens is we think like, okay.

Heather Sager [00:29:42]:
If I can be succinct, if I can really boil it down and make something meaty and juicy and tactical and really just give them bam, bam, bam, do this, then I'm gonna serve them best. And the reality is that's kind of like, okay. 1 of the snacks my kids love right now are these chomp beef sticks. Like, they're obsessed with them. Have you seen them at the grocery store? They're like clean ingredients. They're very trendy right now, but they're, like, in a red package. They're called chonk. And my kids are obsessed.

Heather Sager [00:30:11]:
But a couple weeks ago, we went out to, like, a park in downtown Bend, and I had forgotten a water bottle. And I forgotten the snacks, but in the bottom of the diaper bag, I had, like, a handful of these chomp beef sticks. So my kid, like, they're gnawing on it. They're starving because mom forgot to pack snacks, and they're eating them, and they love them and, you know, like, jerky or beef sticks. Like, it's a little intense if you eat, like, 2 of them back to back, which my children did. And they're like with their mouth going like, we need some water. Like, I need something else. And mom's like, sorry.

Heather Sager [00:30:48]:
I don't have any. Well, here's the thing. When you have with where you're with a with a client or an audience or someone that you're speaking to and you're trying to rapid fire all these tips or tactics and packing it in. This is a terrible metaphor here, but it's like you're cramming the bee stick. Right? It's just too much too intense. Just a little too, like, you know what I mean? Right? It's too salty. What we have to do is think about, like, how do we make this a more pleasant experience? Give it like a palate cleanser, if you will. Well, story is a really great way to do this because when you tell stories and it's not just random stories just to had an entertainment factor.

Heather Sager [00:31:28]:
Stories create imagery explaining what you're trying to say. I just did that with the beef stick story. Was that the sexiest story? Was it well planned out? Was it the perfect example not to be too much? Yeah. You totally am a pickisher. I knew what I was saying. Right? It added more fuel to the to the concept, the idea that I was saying. What I could have done is I could have just rapid fired a list at you of, like, here's 10 ways you can do it. But chances are a week from now, 2 weeks from now, maybe 6 months from now, you're gonna see a beef stick and think of me.

Heather Sager [00:32:03]:
But 2, you're gonna think about that next time you're like, what should I tell someone? What's in my presentation? Right? Give them the babe stick. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Talk about this is like this is gonna be the clip from the episode. Right? Yep. The babe stick, but also think about, like, how can I give them some sips of water? How can I give them, like, a sweet dessert? How can I make this a little bit more palatable so that they'll remember? And story is such a powerful way to do it.

Dr. Christine Li [00:32:27]:
What I will remember is probably not the beef stick story as memorable as that is, but I will remember how you're making me feel. Like, you're making me feel it's such a pleasure to listen to you, and that story is such a wonderful thing to include as a wonderful ingredient for any talk because it's showing you. It's showing life. It's descriptive. It's a filler. It's kinda random, but it's okay. You don't have to get nervous about these things. So thanks again for

Heather Sager [00:32:59]:
Yeah.

Dr. Christine Li [00:32:59]:
Lesson. This is beautiful.

Heather Sager [00:33:01]:
Isn't it great, though? Because you talked about how do we become more authentic. Well, I think just sharing stories and, by the way, stories don't have to be these big things. They could be metaphors. It could be, hey. Just the other day, this thing happened. It could be something big like your career story, or it could be the little ones. Right? I mentioned the arguments with my husband or that I have a little 1 at home. Like, all these little stories and metaphors we've been peppering in today, you're definitely getting a feel around my style.

Heather Sager [00:33:28]:
And the same is true for each of you is the more that you infuse your story, even if they're not your stories, you borrow people's stories or you share about something you read in a book, people are getting to know you through what you choose to share. And the more that you share, the more people filter and say, is this person for me? Do I like them? Do I enjoy their company? Do I trust them? And when they trust you, they're more likely to continue to listen to you and then take your advice. So this all just goes really well together, but story is a great authority builder.

Dr. Christine Li [00:34:01]:
Terrific. Terrific. I love it. Just loving this. Thank you for the lesson. Number 4, it's style.

Heather Sager [00:34:09]:
Style. Yeah. So with with this and I I'm not talking about, like, fashion style or any of that kind of stuff. It's assembly I just needed a simple word to say the way you communicate, how you communicate, your delivery skills. So I prefaced our whole interview today with my delivery skills are probably different than most speaking coaches. Again, I've said, I've probably fumbled. I'm pretty confident I drooled on myself at 1 point. It happens because I dog fast.

Heather Sager [00:34:34]:
It just happens the way that I communicate. If you, by chance, catch the video of this interview, you'll notice my left eyebrow is far more expressive than my right. I can't control it. It bothers me, but I've learned to embrace it. I use really I've really worked hard on my hand gestures. I have worked on my resting not so nice person face to balance out my tone is a little more, let's call it masculine. I don't have that warm syrupy tone in my voice, so I've really had to work in adding a pleasant look to my face. So I've had to think about how do I add more pleasantry when I'm talking about harder things? When is it okay to be really serious? When it comes to your body language, what does your face look like? Are you hunched over? Are you open? Are your arms crossed? Are you closed? All of these things are silently communicating the other person all of these messages.

Heather Sager [00:35:27]:
You could be saying nothing at all, and you're saying so much. So what I like to remind people is when it comes back time, we talk about speaking. How could they be more comfortable in conversations, speaking up in a meeting, talking on a panel, even fundraising if you're part of any nonprofits or organizations? Like, there's all these different contexts. We're blowing it back into we talked about, like, what's the purpose? Okay. What am I gonna talk about? What kind of stories could I use? But most importantly than anything, think about how do I want to come across? How do I want to make this person in front of me feel as we discussed? Right? Do I wanna give them the warm fuzzies? Do I want them to feel empathy? Do I want or do I wanna feel empathy towards them? Do I want them to be excited? Do I want them to be elated? What is that feeling? And chances are is if you're speeding through what you're going to say or you're just delivering the facts or you're talking in a very reserved, apprehensive way, it's probably not gonna create the feeling that you're after. So I think a simple hack to this, a lot of people are like, let me study body language. Oh, let me study how to do hand gestures. But here But here's what I would say is, like, the best way for anyone to come across better in their delivery skills is just ask the question, how do I want this person to feel? Because our brains and our bodies are actually pretty smart.

Heather Sager [00:37:00]:
So if we're thinking, I want them to feel heard, I want them to feel valued, I want them to feel excited, whatever those words are, you'll notice that if you want someone to feel like you care, your body language becomes more open. You'll uncross your arms. You might speak a little slower. If You want someone to feel excited, you're gonna notice that your pace probably should pick up a bit. Now, we don't wanna do that for the entire time we talk to someone. But if we if we connect the dots around how we want them to feel, you'll notice that your tone, your body language, your facial expressions, your hand gestures, all of them will start becoming better. They'll they'll be more helpful versus hindersome to your conversation.

Dr. Christine Li [00:37:42]:
Beautiful. I love that. And I love that that's also a consideration, right, that you can put some thought into it. You can accept the way your eyebrows are going. You can learn hand gestures. And I was taught a long time ago about hands on camera, really, the importance of movement and and and not being like rocks rock like a rock monolith kind of sitting there. And I think it's been really helpful. Like, every little piece of inspiration, you can weave in to what you're naturally inclined to do, but you can have a little more impact the more you go.

Dr. Christine Li [00:38:18]:
Right? And and I would take Heather's cue. Don't leave huge gaps of time in between practice episodes because you do forget and you you do get a little more anxious without the practice, and practice makes a stronger speaker. I really do believe that as well. 100%. So, Heather, I did have some can you tell us just how people can work with you? I am just fascinated by how you deliver your stories, how you teach your experience, and how your personality is woven into what you do. I love this whole thing. Please share with us how we can stay in touch with you and how to work with you.

Heather Sager [00:39:03]:
Yeah. Okay. So the best place for anyone to go if you've been intrigued by my weird quirky style today, kinda keeping things plain simple, but super actionable and entertaining. Right? As my my whole goal is how do I teach people how to make better decisions when it comes to their communication, but also make it enjoyable because that's how we continue to make it a skill. Most people don't think like, oh, I need a public speaking coach unless you're a professional speaker. Well, I'm a professional, like, I don't work with professional speakers. I work with business owners who incorporate speaking their business. So I have to make speaking relevant all the time.

Heather Sager [00:39:35]:
So if you like the idea of, okay, I would love to always be kind of on my a game or constantly be working on how I communicate even if I don't have a quote unquote talk coming up. So that kind of thing, you might like my podcast. That would be a really great place to start because outside of this little hiatus I'm on, I mean, I have 230 something episodes in my archive that you can come back through. It's great The show is called hint of hustle. The whole premise is that I believe that in order to achieve anything great, it requires some hustle, but we hustle in seasons. But when we work in a way that we're more efficient, aka use our voices more effectively, it allows us to not work so hard because we're not trying to prove ourselves. We're not trying to do all these other things to prove that our business can grow. Instead, we are being really intentional with a conversation and creating space for the conversations to happen.

Heather Sager [00:40:26]:
So hint of hustle is a great place to go. You can find it on any of the podcast platforms like you're on now. But the best place to learn a little bit more is my website, heathersager.com. On there, I have a wealth of blog post articles. Again, you can find that YouTube video around hand gestures. I also have a really great episode around how to articulate your thoughts if you struggle getting it out of your head and you feel like you're super rambling. So my number 1 podcast episode is called how to articulate your thoughts so others can understand you. So if you wanna learn a little bit more about that, I have a ton of free resources resources on my site, including my favorite free guide that is called my 19 magnetic phrases.

Heather Sager [00:41:08]:
These are just little words. I used a ton of them today, by the way, but little phrases that you can use to sound more credible and to seed your, like, persuasive argument. If you're selling something or you're trying to get someone to take action, little phrases that you can pepper in to your conversations, whether it's sales conversations or speaking engagements so that your audience actually takes action on the thing you want them to do. So you can grab that. It's on my website, https://heathersager.com/magnet.

Dr. Christine Li [00:41:35]:
I love it. I will have all of that in our show notes for this episode. I know I did the wrap up sequence, but I do remember my question now. So if you can take 1 more question, it is, how do your client feel once they've really adopted the 4 magnetic speaking formula pieces when they've really got it, when they've woven that into how they present and they feel like natural confident be hers, what gets unleashed emotionally, professionally, spiritually in these people?

Heather Sager [00:42:14]:
I just got chills thinking about it. Because the best compliment that I have that I get from my clients, 1 of the exercises we do when we start working together is I have them, I ask the question. I want you to imagine you're on your dream stage. Right? Just imagine a stage that you would just love to speak on, that that'd be like, oh my gosh. I've made it. And we do a whole visualization exercise of them thinking about it. Right? Stepping into that that moment. And in that visualization, they step off stage, and I say, oh my gosh.

Heather Sager [00:42:43]:
Somebody ran up to you to tell you I loved your presentation. My question for you is, what are the words they use to describe you? And they write down their words, and we end up modifying in to this, what we call their speaker persona, which is these are the words that I want people using to describe me. So when my clients, they deliver their talks, they create their talks, they've been practicing, they get out there, and they speak on a stage. Maybe it's not their dream stage, sometimes it is, but they get on a stage that the best feeling ever is when they actually read the comments in the attendee survey, or they have conversations with people after they read the messages in their inbox after. And those words that they're reading are literally the exact words that they dream someday someone would say about them. That they're feeling that they were an inspiration, that they're finally gonna take action. They're feeling they were warm and welcoming and inspiring and engaging and whatever the words were. And the coolest part is my clients, they always knew that they could do it, but they didn't have the courage to actually take action to make it happen.

Heather Sager [00:43:48]:
So that feeling that they have that it's like, holy damn, I did that. It's like they blew their own mind because even though I helped them along the way, they did it. They were the person on stage. So that self feeling of accomplishment and pride that they have, it is it is the best feeling that you could ever have as a coach to see someone celebrate their own success because they worked so hard to benefit the other people in the room. It's like this beautiful ripple effect that I do with people, and it's just my favorite.

Dr. Christine Li [00:44:20]:
Well, Heather, thank you for being the original ripple, the, story of chopsticks, which I think I will remember, and be looking at for in the grocery store next time I'm there. Thank you for coming on the show and for educating us in such a brilliant and fun way. And I am looking forward to grabbing that magnet download of 19 phrases, so I'm hoping my listeners will follow suit. And I wish you all the best with new baby, all the other babies, and your business and everything else. Thank you so much for being here.

Heather Sager [00:44:54]:
Thank you. Thank you.

Dr. Christine Li [00:44:55]:
Take care, everyone. I will see you next week for another episode of the Make Time For Success podcast. And if you would, please drop a wonderful review of the podcast because I have amazing guests like Heather on and because we work to give you a lot of information about how to make time for success in your life. Thank you so much. I'll see you next week.

Dr. Christine Li [00:45:19]:
Bye. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Make Time For Success podcast. If you enjoyed what you heard, you can subscribe to make sure you get notified of upcoming episodes. You can also visit our website, make time for success podcast.com, for past episodes, show notes, and all the resources we mentioned on the show. Feel free to connect with me over on Instagram too. You can find me there under the name coach. Send me a DM and let me know what your thoughts are about the episodes you've been listening to. And let me know any topics that you might like me to talk about on the show.

Dr. Christine Li [00:45:56]:
I'd love to hear all about how you're making time for success. Talk to you soon.