Finding Your Value: Strategies for Overcoming Self-Doubt and Impostor Syndrome in Art and Business with Miriam Schulman

Christine Li  0:01  
Welcome back to the Make Time for Success podcast. This is episode number 131. If you're curious how to develop true confidence, in your work and in your business and in how you show up for yourself in your business, this episode is going to be super helpful for you. My special guest today is Miriam Schulman who is an artist, author, and host of the Inspiration Place podcast. She's helped 1000s of creatives around the world, develop their skill sets and create more time and freedom to do what they love. Her signature coaching program, the artist incubator, teaches artists to go from soso sales to sold out collections. In this episode today, we talk a lot about her new book through HarperCollins leadership called our printer. And this book provides the actual steps to turn your creative ideas into a thriving business. Miriam is a dynamo and amazing leader and a wonderful conversationalist. So let's go listen to this fun episode together.

Hi, I'm Dr. Christine Li, and I'm a psychologist and a procrastination coach. I've helped 1000s of people move past procrastination and overwhelm so they can begin working to their potential. In this podcast, you're going to learn a powerful strategies for getting your mind, body and energy to work together so that you can focus on what's really important and accomplish the goals you want to achieve. When you start living within your full power, you're going to see how being productive can be easy, and how you can create success on demand. Welcome to the Make Time for Success podcast. 

Hi everyone. Its Dr. Christine Li. I'm back for another episode today I have a wonderful guest. She is an artist and author and a podcast host. And we have mutual friends in Tracy Otsuka who has been a guest on my show before Miriam is here to talk about her brand new book Artpreneuer. And I just want to welcome Miriam to the show. I'm grateful to have you here. Welcome.

Miriam Schulman  2:20  
Well, thank you for having me, Christine. It's such an honor to be on your show.

Christine Li  2:24  
So Miriam, thank you for being here again. And let's just start with who you are, who is Miriam, Schulman? How'd you get to be the author? How'd you get to be the artist and whatever you'd like to share with us today?

Miriam Schulman  2:38  
Okay, how far back we go. It's always reminds me of the on the family. You'd have bunkers 40th. Reunion when her friends so like how are you? What have you done since high school and she starts from like, year by year by year. I like he wants to hang up. Okay. I want to start off telling my artist journey very similar to what I talk about inside our printer. And that is you know, I wanted to be an artist, I really did. But I came from a single family household, my father passed away when I was five years old. And I didn't believe that this was possible for me, my mother wanted me to be a doctor, doctor's wife was also an option. Or I would be a disappointment. Like, maybe I could be an engineer, that would be a runner up. My sister, by the way is the doctor, okay. And so I took the practical route, like most people, and I did not become an artist. And instead since I figured I had to pay off all these student loans. And I was the whole point was to make money. Whereas most money made on Wall Street. So I went to Wall Street. And I never stopped painting on the side. But I didn't believe I could make a living that way. And it wasn't until 911 happened that I had a wake up call that oh, I'm not I'm not doing that I could have died in that I'm not doing that anymore. I'm not going back to work. I actually at that time was on an extended maternity leave. And I had thought that I would return. And I made the decision not to. I didn't I still didn't believe that I can make a living as an artist, but I was working at it. And to make ends meet. I took a job as a Pilates instructor, which is we both are from the New York area. New York Sports Club was the gym I joined and they do an excellent job of training their instructors, and one of the ways they make money is with upsells. And that's personal training packages. So when they were teaching the instructors how to do this, how to sell personal training packages, how to upsell our clients. That's when I had my aha moment I was like oh Oh, so I can use all these things that you're teaching me to sell my artwork. And that was over 20 years ago. So from that point on, I put all my effort into selling my art and learning and mastering the art of marketing.

Christine Li  5:20  
Wonderful, that is a great story of your development of the trials and tribulations that you had to experience. I think we didn't hear the the day in and day out. But we heard that you had to make important decisions, and you had to take jumps and leaps of faith along the way. Absolutely. And it sounds like you have been a painter throughout. Yes. Were you painting all your life?

Miriam Schulman  5:50  
Yeah, so I mean, paint describe painting all my life. So when I was in high school, this is what my art looked like. First period was fonts. Second period was drawing my teachers. Third period is drawing classmates. I mean, obviously, these weren't real classes. I was in, you know, physics and whatever else we do in high school. But but that was kind of my own curriculum was doing drawing and things like that I did take art classes in college, it wasn't I was I did a kind of a hybrid major with art history, because I really wasn't going to graduate if that wasn't part of my major, because I was taking so many art classes. And I just continued doing things on the side. So when I was in graduate school, I did pastels. And when I started working on Wall Street is when I learned watercolor painting, and that became my medium of choice. When I had small kids, because you can paint at home, it's not toxic. It doesn't require a lot of cleanup. So the baby starts crying. It's not like I've ruined a brush or left something dangerous lying around. So that was my choice of, of artwork.

Christine Li  7:06  
Okay, what kind of confidence issues did you experience during that leap from? Okay, it's 911. I've changed my mind. I'm going for it. What then happened? Emotionally?

Miriam Schulman  7:20  
Yeah, so what happened to me is very similar to what's happened in the last few years. So there's nothing like a crisis that lifts a veil over what's not working in your life, and finding meaning in your life. And that's why since the pandemic, millions of people have walked away from their jobs. And in my line of work, I'm always meeting these, what I call, I call them pandemic artists, people who decided to become an artist during the pandemic. And there's a lot of statistics to back this up. So this is what led to the book is that the FCS sellers with a very short period of time, like I think just during 2020, alone, it swelled from 3 million art sellers to 5 million. I don't know how much it is today. But it was a very significant jump in the number of people making careers out of their creativity.

Christine Li  8:12  
I did not know that I find that easy to believe, and also remarkable at the same time. And also, just backing up what you're saying about lifting the veil that people are wanting to focus more on what is truly meaningful for them when they come into a crisis situation. Did you have your own nerves about shifting? Or was it just like an easy decision?

Miriam Schulman  8:42  
No, it's nothing. How is anything ever easy. But here's the thing, and I talked about this in my book, I call it break free from the golden handcuffs. And the point of that chapter really is that so we as humans, we've evolved for survival, we have not evolved for goal achievement. And so it's very difficult for us to when we're going to take a risk, where we feel uncomfortable. Our brain can't tell the difference between the danger of starting a new business, sending out an email, posting on social media can't tell the difference between those uncomfortable feelings and maybe leaving the cave and getting eaten by a tiger. What I point out in the book break free from your golden handcuffs, whatever those metaphorical golden handcuffs are, is that you can't just think about those metaphorical bears, tigers and sharks outside of your cave because guess what, there are snakes inside the cave. And for me, a woman working on Wall Street in the 90s there were a lot of snakes, you know, and I don't know what the landscape looks like. Now I'm imagining it's not things haven't changed that much given our political landscape as well. So I mean, I experienced everything sexual harass Osment being passed over for promotions. So all those things that were happening that made the work environment quite miserable. That wasn't enough. It's like that i Nice Nin quote that like, staying the same became too uncomfortable. So that became the motivation for me. So that's what I'm seeing why so many people are taking this step now is because they see the risks of staying the same. The risk of staying the same as staying in a job that could change on a dime that as at the whims of you know, something like a pandemic, or being laid off or, or what happened with the lock downs and everything, though, there are a lot of risks of not changing, and that discomfort outweighed the discomfort of change. Okay,

Christine Li  10:49  
that's a wonderful explanation of how you survived that period. And can you describe the process you went through as an artist who was then also having to sell her work, sell and market her work? What kinds of experiences were important for you during that phase of your business?

Miriam Schulman  11:11  
Well, I mean, I definitely made a lot of mistakes along the way. And this is what I help my students with many of it is having to do with mindset around your pricing, the very common belief that cheaper is easier to sell, which it isn't. And how you could actually hurt yourself when you price yourself too low. So I went through many of those, those mistakes. So for me, I came from a very, from a place of, of sharing what I was doing, and I still feel this way, this is what I find marketing is a joyful process. I don't feel sleazy when I'm doing it, because I'm not trying to trick anybody into buying something they don't want, I have something that is beautiful to offer, whether that offering is here's this portrait of your child, you want it don't want it, you're missing out. And I don't say that to them. But that's how I feel about it. I feel like the world misses out. And you know what, not everybody gets it just like, you know, Beyonce hugely popular. Not everybody likes her music. So it's fine. I'm not for everybody. But that's how I feel about all the things that I sell. Like my book, I honestly feel anyone who doesn't read my book is missing out, you know, so I feel like it's a beautiful thing. So I don't feel bad about marketing what I have, I don't feel sleazy doing it. I feel like I'm coming from a place of sharing, like, I'm having this great party, and you want to come like the water's warm in my pool. We got some cold beers over here. I come from that very excited place about what it is that I do, whether throughout time, whether that was selling my art selling my classes, when that was became my focus. And now with the book and my coaching program, I feel the same way. It's like I have something beautiful to offer. And I can't wait to share it.

Christine Li  13:13  
And you've always had that thought. Yeah, okay. Okay.

Miriam Schulman  13:18  
My biggest mindset blocks came. When I started writing the book, I definitely had that impostor syndrome, like, oh, this was a big mistake. I have no idea what I'm doing. So those thoughts come up. Those are those are my my sabotage errors are. I didn't have to sabotage or thinking that selling is a bad thing, which I know, many artists do have that. That problem. That was not never my problem. I've had other problems.

Christine Li  13:51  
Okay. Take us through the imposter syndrome piece.

Miriam Schulman  13:56  
Okay, so you know, the thing the thing is, is the bigger you you get the you actually get more not less imposter syndrome, because now you're you're playing a bigger game. So with me, it came with writing the book, and I had 100% belief that I would get an agent. I had 100% belief, I'd get a publishing contract. I do not know why I believed these things. I guess I was naive. It's a good thing. I didn't know how hard it is for most people. This is like, of course, it's gonna happen for me. Of course, I just said the follow the steps and it will happen. And there really is something powerful about having that belief, you know, choosing to believe, however, so I hadn't thought ahead to the actual writing process. So I get the contract, I get the agent, I get the contract. And then they say to me, come back in six months when your manuscript is done. And that's when I said, Oh, no, they made a huge mistake. I should just give them back my advance. I have No idea what I'm doing. So I don't want to leave your listeners in this spot for long obviously did finish writing the book. And it is not a ghost written book. I did write the book. But I did get help. I had a book coach helped me through this. But one of the two most powerful things that I did to help me get to the that finish line was number one. I had a mentor, Dr. Eric Maisel, he writes on creativity. And I said to him, Eric, you know, I understand about a shitty first draft, but I'm still struggling. He says, Well, the problem, Miriam is you don't understand that you need to be willing to write a shitty first book. And when he said that, it was like, That set me free. And I understood because that was something that I was willing to do with my artwork, I was willing to be a bad artist before I became a good artist. So then I had to be willing to be a bad writer, or write a bad book, which it isn't. It's a great book, but I was willing to go to that place. And I said to myself, I made a schedule, and the schedule was asked and share ugly words. And I knew that the only thing I had control over during this process was meeting my deadline. And so that's what got me there was committing to making that deadline. Now, Christine, you're asking me about confidence. Here's the secret about confidence. So it's great if I can tell a story about this. Okay. So in my book I talked about like, like, in the book, I call her, Margaret. She's a real person, but Margaret is not her real name. So this this client, Margaret came to me. And she said to me, you know, I'm not getting the things done, I need to do. I said, Oh, why do you think that is? Why do you think you are procrastinating? She says, it's because I lacked confidence. And I said, Oh, no, Mark, right. It's the other way around. The reason you lack confidence is because you procrastinate. And the whole definition of confidence is self trust. So every time Margaret was procrastinating, she was eroding herself trust, she was not doing what she said she was going to do. And I said, this is how we change this for you. You will commit, you will commit to doing what you say you're going to do and your your confidence will grow. And of course, of course it did for her. And that's how I get through is I do what I say I'm going to do.

Christine Li  17:48  
Yeah, that's beautiful. That is great coaching that you got from Dr. Maisel, and great coaching that you gave to Margaret, I agree wholeheartedly that we have to escape any ideas that we can and should be perfect, because that can really stop us dead in the tracks, no matter how talented we are, or how passionate we are about things as you've described, and that we have to go with faith in order to get a healthy sense of confidence, we have to actually be doing the action work. Before we see that there are a lot of those energy sparks that we're hoping for that we're hoping to start with. Oftentimes, we have to start before we get them. So thank you for sharing that really great tip. Terrific. So I'm glad you met the deadlines. That's wonderful, and that you had a great strategy while God while going through what has happened since the publication of the book, how has it changed you? How has your voice changed? How is your teaching and coaching changed since you've completed that part?

Miriam Schulman  18:56  
Oh, that's such a great question. Okay, so we're recording this. Not quite the end of February and the book came out January 31. So we're less than a month in to it. But definitely, it has fine tuned my my message. So I'm a much different like Interviewer When I go on these pockets interviewers than I was before I wrote the book, like it helped writing the book helped me dial in my my message because I really had to work hard. Wasn't just now I know a lot of people this I had this thought as well, that you think you go to a cabin and you just write a book and you come out and it's like you gave birth in the woods by yourself. And here's your beautiful baby. And it just doesn't work that way. Like I said, I had a book coach, and I would send her chapters and she would show me all the problems with it. And then I thought I was quote unquote, done I hand the manuscript into the publisher. And so I had I did panda Then the six months later ended December, and then three months of silence because that's how publishers are you'd like never hear from them. And then March it comes back. And it there was, you know, I think it was I like to describe it like the scene in Harry Potter in where he takes the bass looks Fang and he stabs the diary and the ink is spurting out of it. Now that makes sense to people. No, Harry Potter makes no sense if you don't. Okay, so. But anyway, there was like, I just felt like the developmental editor killed my book, she hated my book, I was ready to give back my advance. There's many times I had that tantrum, where I was just ready to like, quit. But each time it went through this process, it made the book stronger. So there were the edits that she gave me that I was like, oh, okay, I can see how this is a problem, I should take it out. And there were edits that you gave me that was like, No, I disagree. And this is an invitation to dive into my messaging even deeper, even deeper. And that part has just been so liberating for me, like really seeing where I fall on to, on my own belief scale on things, and really being having a strong, strong message and a strong point of view.

Christine Li  21:24  
And it's a great description of how personal the process is of writing a book. And it's not like going to the woods and giving birth to a baby by yourself. And it really is an opportunity to really sharpen your thoughts and your message and to grow into your passion and message to now, I'm thinking I did have another question. You know, what I was thinking was our conversation before we pressed record about the book. And if we could shift to that part of the conversation, I would love that, because you described how it's really so packed with self development, messages and lessons and positive psychology. Please share with us why that's there and why that's so important to you.

Miriam Schulman  22:13  
Yeah, so one of the things that I probably didn't talk enough about in the book that I get pushed back on is what about talent. Because you know, in the book, I tell that well, you have, you know, pricing and prospecting and promotion and productivity. And here's the truth, Mindset and Marketing are going to trump talent every single time. And really, you can't even be a good marketer, unless you have a strong mindset. So the mindset of thinking like an abundant artist, rather than a starving artist, is laced throughout the book. Because no one can take any of my advice unless they can start questioning their limiting beliefs, and they're not going to see these limiting beliefs. Because anytime, like I said before, anytime you do something uncomfortable, and you have fear in your brain wants to keep you safe, it will come up with all kinds of bullet stories about why this thing won't work for you. And the smarter you are, and the more creative you are, the better you'll be at coming up with these stories. So I have to point out to anyone reading the book, I you know, this is something you might be thinking right now, and then showing them like, why that isn't true. So thoughts like these are the things I hear all the time. And when you say them out loud, they sound ridiculous, but I do these are real things I hear, Oh, there's there's not enough people in Australia. To sell. They're like, really? I think there's 30 million people there. I don't know. And Sydney is an art center. So you know, that's not enough people, you know, they'll think it only works in the US because there's more people they're like, I don't know about that. Or I can't sell art because it's a pandemic. How many people have you heard Christine, like in the in the beginning of 2020 thought they couldn't sell because it's a pandemic meal, all the people who didn't have that thought cleaned up. Everybody was shopping during the pandemic, especially artwork. So and especially I don't even have to say especially our work, it was snowing every day, you know, everything was so you know, I can't sell because there's a looming recession. There's a earthquake in Turkey. So there's things like that people think there is nobody wants one. Nobody wants to pay high prices for my stuff, or I'm just starting out. So these are all examples of all or nothing thinking, fortune telling and mindset reading and so throughout the book, I educate the reader on where this is coming up how this is self sabotaging and more importantly, how to comment.

Christine Li  24:57  
Yes, beautiful. You have me wondering This is a little tangential. But I really am curious about the idea of the starving artist and your own backstory of you're feeling like you needed to, to go into finance instead of art. That whole system has been in play for so long. And do you happen to know what the origin of that is where there's maybe a sense that we cannot value the work of the artist?

Miriam Schulman  25:27  
Yeah, I think that the origin of that myth came out of like the idea of the Bohemian artists being glorified. But the truth is that artists do not starve. Real artists do not starve. That something Jeff Goins did a beautiful job of in his book, real artists don't starve. You know, talking about Michelangelo was very successful. When I hear artists say, Oh, I am a real artist, I only paint what I want. I was like, well, Michelangelo was pimping himself out to the Pope, you know, he didn't even want to paint the Sistine Chapel. We know this. He wanted to only be a sculptor. But apparently there was a lot of money in the Sistine Chapel. And then he did it in his own way. You know, he kind of like did it with a wink wink and a nudge nudge in a way that expressed his point of view. So which in a way that maybe the church wasn't so happy with like the the Last Judgement where they went and painted loincloths all over the over that painting. So real artists do not need to starve. There's plenty of evidence of artists making a successful living. And I think what happens is that there are very few artists that are going to reach the level of being in a museum. But that doesn't mean you can't make a thriving, living as an artist, as a musician, as a writer as a whatever it is you want to be. There are definitely paths that are available for people to make a living from their creativity.

Christine Li  26:55  
Beautiful. What have you noticed about your artist community and the people that you coach, as a group? Do they affect each other? And has this positive thinking, kind of taking route? What is your sense of what's going on dynamically in your tribe?

Miriam Schulman  27:14  
Yes, so first of all, one of the most powerful things is surrounding yourself with other people who are doing the same things. I hear that over and over again, from the artists who become successful is that one of their greatest motivators, were seeing other people doing the thing that they thought was so scary, and they didn't die. So there's that. And so many of the artists come out of it like wow, I'm a different person. Now. I'm a more confident person now. So that's why Christine, I said to you before we hit record, that the work I do and the book art printer, it really is a self development book in disguise as a business book for creatives. Yeah,

Christine Li  27:54  
this is amazing. And so needed, your work is so needed. Again, everyone the book is art printer, the step by step guide to making a sustainable living from your creativity. And it's Merriam Schulman and Miriam Could you describe your community and how people can get into the community stay connected with you get your experience, wisdom and inspiration in this way?

Miriam Schulman  28:22  
Sure. So to find out what I'm offering, when you're listening to this, go to showman art.com, forward slash bi Z. You'll link to that I'm sure in the show notes. Christine. So Angelman is spelled like school S, C, H. And you can always go to Shillman art.com. Forward slash biz and see the different ways you can work with me. But if you like what you heard today, come find me at the Inspiration Place podcast, wherever you're listening to make time for success with Dr. Christine Lee. You can find the Inspiration Place.

Christine Li  28:57  
Terrific, terrific. Miriam, good luck with the rest of the book promotion, the books growth, your business growth and your community growth. And I'm so happy that I got to meet you and that we got to talk about your wonderful work and your wonderful viewpoint on what an artist can do is really very powerful. Thank you so much. 

Miriam Schulman  29:21  
Oh, thanks for having me. 

Christine Li  29:23  
All right, everyone. Please give Miriam a shout out wherever you decide to connect with her. Listen to the podcast. And come back and visit me again next Thursday when our next episode drops it. Thank you so much, Miriam, and everyone. I'll see you soon. 

Thank you for listening to this episode of the Make Time for Success podcast. If you enjoyed what you've heard, you can subscribe to make sure you get notified of upcoming episodes. You can also visit our website maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com for past episodes, show notes and all the resources we mentioned on So feel free to connect with me over on Instagram too. You can find me there under the name procrastination coach, send me a DM. And let me know what your thoughts are about the episodes you've been listening to. And let me know any topics that you might like me to talk about on the show. I'd love to hear all about how you're making time for success. I'll talk to you soon!

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