Healing through Gratitude: Overcoming Chronic Illness and Loss with Holly Bertone

Christine Li  0:01  
Welcome back to the Make Time for Success podcast. This is episode number 142. 

In this episode, we are joined by an incredible guest, Holly Bertone, who has an inspiring story of resilience and transformation to share with us. Holly spent 20 years rising through the ranks of federal government service before a breast cancer and autoimmune diagnosis created an opportunity for her to combine her background in project management and analytics. With solving a different set of problems. These days she is known as the transformative coach who helps you achieve better health, better emotional health and better relationships with yourself and your loved ones. With the power of gratitude, we're going to hear the Power of Gratitude the science behind it, and how it can help us to overcome challenges. Holly is a certified natural health coach certified six phase meditation facilitator number one Amazon Best Selling Author and host of the gratitude builds fortitude podcast, she has been featured on over 200 TV and radio segments, articles, podcasts and summits and as an expert on gratitude and mindset. And now we get to learn from her as well. Let's go listen to the episode now together.

Hi, I'm Dr. Christine Li, and I'm a psychologist and a procrastination coach. I've helped 1000s of people move past procrastination and overwhelm so they can begin working to their potential. In this podcast, you're going to learn a powerful strategies for getting your mind, body and energy to work together so that you can focus on what's really important and accomplish the goals you want to achieve. When you start living within your full power, you're going to see how being productive can be easy, and how you can create success on demand. Welcome to the Make Time for Success podcast. 

Hello, my friends. So glad to see you in air quotes today. Welcome back to the show. Today I have an amazing and wonderful and brilliant guest with me her name is Holly Bertone. She is a gratitude and mindfulness coach. And she just showed me the the Holly dance dance that she does before each recording with a big smile on her face. So welcome to the show. Holly, I can't wait to get to know you better in this interview.

Holly Bertone  2:36  
Thank you so much, Christine. It has been so much fun getting to know you these past couple of years. And I'm so excited to be on the show.

Christine Li  2:43  
Yes. Well, welcome. Welcome, welcome. Please let us know how you came to be a gratitude and mindfulness coach, and what populations do you work with, in particular and all the things?

Holly Bertone  2:57  
Yeah, absolutely. So I that is a that is my official title. I am a gratitude and mindfulness coach. And, and I'll get into my background a little bit. But the majority of my clients, one on one clients, and the students in my in my program come from a place of having some type of significant health challenge or they want to be healthier. And it's funny, and you and I were talking yesterday, it's just the more I get out there, the more I'm actually expanding into individuals who just want to be happier and healthier, which is so much fun. And I love being that light to be able to help others find their own light and their own happiness. And honestly, it came from a really, really dark place. And I'm excited to share that dark place with everyone today.

Christine Li  3:44  
Well, thank you for that generosity, and I can't wait to hear I know bits and pieces of your background. But tell us where we should start.

Holly Bertone  3:54  
Yeah, I like to start the day before because I think it really sets the stage. And I think especially for you listening, coming from a place like you know, I think we all tend to be overachievers and super successful and high performers and you know really kind of have an identity of being in that place. And that was me. I was the Chief of Staff of one of those three letter federal government agencies they make TV shows about so it was the highest position that you can go before getting into executive management. I actually got appointed to that. It was a congressional appointment at the age of 37. So it was a it was a pretty big deal. That was a competitive athlete. So I raised X Tara races and I was the only civilian on Quantico Marine Corps mountain bike team. So that was pretty hardcore. I took my Thailand lessons, which is kind of like boxing and I rock climbed, traveled all over the world drank margaritas with my girlfriends, like, I call that the most perfect life ever. Like that was to me that was what I called success in terms of having the A high achieving career being the top athlete, you know, getting medals put around my neck on the podium, and you know, just having this fabulous life. And on my 39th birthday, so this was 2010. And don't do the math. Yeah. So my 39th birthday, I got the phone call from my doctor. And he said, Holly, I'm calling to let you know that you have breast cancer. Don't worry, it's the good kind, but you're still going to need to go see a surgeon. And that was the extent of the conversation. Now, the test had all been done when I felt the lump and I found it by myself just by accident. Girls, be sure to check even before the age of 40. But yeah, I found it by accident and just rolled over and I felt in the second that that inner knowing, right that unwavering knowingness that's inside you. The second I felt it, I knew. But it was still a month of test. And when I got that news, it was everything in life just stopped. It was, you know, life before the diagnosis and life after the diagnosis. And it just, you know, my head spinning, it was the middle of the summer, it was just I was on the DC metro train commuting home when I got the call. And it was just like everything just stop in time. And I ended up going through surgery, chemo and radiation. But what was interesting, and I was really mad at that doctor, there is no good kind of cancer, there is no good kind of breast cancer, there's no good kind of cancer, my tumor was small and lazy. So we can celebrate that. But there's no good kind of cancer. So shame on that doctor for even saying that. So I went through all of this, I lost my hair. I got pushed into chemical menopause at 39. I was actually engaged at the time. And I smelled like chemo funk. I mean, it was cancer treatment was brutal. You know, there were nights that I was crying. Because the pain was so bad. And I just wanted to cry myself to sleep. I mean, it was, it was it was brutal. It was a very aggressive treatment, because I was so young, I just wanted to get everything, just get it out, just get it out. And I don't want it to ever come back. So we went on a very aggressive treatment. But what happened was that after treatment ended, I was so excited and like, Okay, I'm gonna get my life back. Right? Like that's, you know, you're you're done. I'm done with treatment. I'm like, excited to get my life back my fabulous, successful life back. But what happened was, I never healed, I never got better. And all the girls in support group and you know, they're out there doing these pink ribbon 5k races. I'm like, I can't get out of bed. Something's wrong with me. And it took an entire year for me advocating for myself and getting tests and going to additional doctors that I was diagnosed with Hashimotos thyroiditis, which is an autoimmune condition. It's a basically a very slow and sluggish thyroid. And what it happened was that over the course of this season, I was like, okay, the doctor is gonna give me a pill, I'm going to be all better, right? Like, that's kind of how it works. But that's not how it worked. Breast cancer was kind of a on off treatment for me. But the autoimmune disease has been every single day, that it just keeps going and going and going. And the biggest symptom for me was that it was debilitating chronic fatigue. And the chronic fatigue over the years grew so strong that in 2017 I was falling asleep at work, I was grading to just drive home safely that I wouldn't fall asleep at the wheel. I mean, it was the debilitating was teak was that bad. And people are like, Oh, I'm tired too. And my managers at work were like, Oh, just drink coffee. It's not that level of tired. It is a just bone crushing, tired fatigue. And it got so bad that I had a new management team come in, I called them the mean girls. And they wanted nothing to do. I had approved FMLA and EEO and all the official paperwork that protected me. And especially as a federal government employee, I was protected. And they found a way to rescind everything. And they blocked every move to transfer. And in 2017, I was forced to resign from my dream job. And that was rock bottom number three. And that one was the worst because my entire identity was wrapped around being successful. And if I don't have that successful career, then I don't have value. And that was an identity that was very strong for many, many years. And that was brutal to try to figure out how do I get past this point? And especially at that point, you know, I was still married I was raising his stepson. I couldn't get out of bed I couldn't function. And that was that was rock bottom number three. So yeah, that's the dark place number Lesson number two and number three,

Christine Li  10:02  
wow, I knew bits and pieces. Like I said, I did not know quite the heights you had been in both athletically and physically and mentally and in your career, and also perhaps the lowest of the lows, as well. So thank you for sharing the entire story. And it sounds like you have an amazing perspective, having gone through all of that. And it sounds like you've come back from that in so many different ways. And I can't wait to hear about that part of the story as well. Can you tell us about that part where you thought my identity is what I do, and, and how firmly that was? Embedded in you and how you did things? Yeah, absolutely.

Holly Bertone  10:50  
And that's a great question, Christine. You know, going back to second grade, so I grew up in Pennsylvania, going back to second grade, I was the first kid in class to spell Pennsylvania Pennsylvania is a long word to spell, right? As an adult, you're like P E, Ed, right? They try to sell it as an adult is hard enough. But in second grade, I had that drive my entire like, to be the best to be the top like, I graduated fourth in my class, and I was mad that I wasn't, you know, first or second or third. I've always had that drive to succeed. And it was just always a part of my identity. And, you know, it's, it was so embedded in me that success equals value. And when Yeah, that got taken away from me. It wasn't just that my health had hit rock bottom. It wasn't just, I was forced to resign. It was I have no value, I am a failure. Right? I don't deserve to be in this life anymore. Like I, I can't function. So what's the point? What's the point of, you know, if this is how it's going to be for the rest of my life? What is the point? You know, and yeah, that was a pretty dark place.

Christine Li  12:04  
Yes, I am also thinking that psychologist and you going to have some fun with us just a little bit, I'm thinking that your mind must have been really active in trying to figure out what had happened kind of a hindsight mind, because your body was so set with fatigue. And maybe that that was something you used to rely on, but that it was it was in overdrive, but these are all just assumptions. Can you let us know what it felt like, within your own body? You mean, during the fatigue? Or during the fatigue? Post? The treatment? Yeah, yeah. bottom number three? Yeah,

Holly Bertone  12:50  
yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was, I couldn't get out of bed. I mean, I forced myself, you know, going through chemo gives you some strength that you never thought you had. So there were days, you know, I would I started like, this little hobby blog. And, you know, so I'd work an hour or two, and then, you know, sleep all afternoon, and then, you know, and my ex husband and stepson would come home from work and school, I'd fix him dinner, and then go right to that. I mean, my life was literally in bed. I mean, I spent, you know, probably 16 hours, at least in bed a day it was it was really, really bad. And yeah, I mean, when you're in that place, I think the only thing you can see in front of you is that bed and that fatigue. And, you know, your mind goes to those dark place is like I said, just being in that place of I'm a failure, I have no value. I have no worth like this is, you know, I'm just here going through the motions.

Christine Li  13:45  
Okay, thanks for sharing that. Can you let us know what helped you to emerge from the chronic fatigue and the dark dark thinking? Yeah, absolutely.

Holly Bertone  13:57  
And it was about a month into my cancer treatment. So being diagnosed on my birthday, I always joke because I was a little on the snarky side, kind of still out. But I said, you know, Oh, girls, most girls get, you know, earrings are flowers on their birthday. My gift was breast cancer. And I said it over and over and over again. You know, like, the affirmations are great. And you say these affirmations and at some point, they go from your head to your heart, you actually believe it? And it was almost like that, like I was saying it's so you know, snarky and irreverently, but my heart, at some point started to believe it. And that was imprinted in me and about a month after treatment and into treatment was the breast cancer is a gift, but I had no idea what that meant. But it was imprinted in me it was anchored into my soul. And then fast forward. My So growing up, my mother had Addison's disease, which is a very rare adrenal disorder. And so she had her own health challenges and she always You had this module, she said it every single day of my life I heard it was it builds fortitude. So I was like, Okay, I think this fortitude thing it's all about like soldiering on and you know staying strong through the tough times. So in my head when I was going through all of these challenges, her life mantra, it builds fortitude, you know, kept going through my, you know, that soundtrack. And that was what helped me to kind of stay strong and soldier on and realizing that, you know, I have a choice, I have a choice, I can show up. And it was several months after I was forced to resign, and realizing I have a choice, I can either say, This is my life, I'm going to be miserable. Or I can take radical responsibility for my health and my life, and I can do something about it. And in my mind, at that point in time, I was thinking, Okay, this was kind of what this 42 things about. It's a little more, we can talk about that in a minute. But that was that choice, that big, epic decision of I'm going to take radical responsibility for my health and my life. And they say, when the students ready, the teacher appeared. And it was at that point that two very beautiful individuals came into my life that helped me on my healing journey. And, to this day, still very, very close individuals in my life. And it was a very slow and gradual process to get out of that hole, you know, both from the emotional perspective and then also, from the physical perspective. And when, when my mother passed, it was when I really started that introspection, of what does this fortitude thing mean, and something didn't sit right with the it builds fortitude, and that kind of staying strong mentality. And I really started to reflect on her life and her legacy. And it was, then during that grief that I realized that the it that she was referring to is gratitude. And her life of, despite everything going on, it wasn't about staying strong, it was about being grateful. And being happy, despite what was going on. It's about living every day to the fullest. It's about waking up and having that song in your heart versus just that feeling of dread. And that's when I jumped into the research and the science and the psychoneuroimmunology, and all the fun stuff about how the brain completely changes when we are in a state of gratitude. And that's when I started to put the pieces together, that it's that credit to that feeling of happiness, that changes our brain that helps us to build fortitude and mental strength and resilience for not just what we're going through, but then also for the next time around, because life always happens, right? We always are going to have the successes and the failures in life. So that was basically me putting all of those pieces together.

Christine Li  17:57  
Wonderful. I have two questions. One is just the natural curiosity, the two people that came into your life to help? Could you describe maybe their roles in your life without if you don't want to mention names? And also, you mentioned how gratitude changes your chemistry? And could you indicate that because I think that could help a lot of our followers to to understand that gratitude isn't just a woowoo kind of energetic thing. It's it's a it's a physical change as well. Yeah, absolutely.

Holly Bertone  18:32  
So the two individuals one was a is is a chiropractor, but he's more like a holistic chiropractor. So he didn't just do the spinal manipulation, there was like a whole integrative thing. And the second was an actually an energy healer. And so I worked with her to really work through all of the kinds of emotions and I was bullied as a child. So some childhood trauma that came out. And yeah, so those are the those were the two individuals and yeah, absolutely. Gratitude is, I mean, people kind of think of it like this word that they throw around, like, Oh, I'm grateful we're, oh, make a list of three things. Or, you know, I just if I say I'm, thank you, no, thank you, then, you know, gratitude in it. It's almost like this, like rainbows and unicorns in this word that just gets thrown around. But it is really the foundation is in the science and that your brain has probably 80% negative thoughts and 20% Positive thoughts your brain it's like Dr. Rick Hanson, it says it's like the Velcro for the negative and the Teflon for the positive. And gratitude is actually a way to reverse that to become the Velcro for the positive. And when you're in that state of gratitude, your reticular activating system kicks in and you focus on what you focus on. So if you're always thinking negative thoughts, then you're always going to be thinking Negative thoughts and that's all of that negative is going to be everything that's in front of you. But when you start to focus on the positive, we start to focus on the gratitude, all of a sudden, the world just starts to change. It's like, you know, putting on glasses, I'm nearsighted, right, so driving at night, I can't see. And so when I put on my glasses to drive at night, all of a sudden, I can see clearly, and that's what gratitude does, it helps to give us the for happy hormones, the dopamine, the endorphins and serotonin, the oxytocin, and helps us to boost that, that brain chemistry and those chemicals in our brain, that happy hormones, and gives us that dose of natural, almost that natural addiction, right, like some people get addicted to cigarettes, or caffeine or sugar, or gambling or whatever, but gratitudes like that good addiction, right? It, it gets us addicted to the happy stuff. And it's a very natural state. And it also there's tons of scientific studies that it helps us to exercise longer and more, it helps us to decrease our blood pressure, it helps us build our immune system, it helps us to live longer, it helps us to feel less tired, feel less depressed. All of these wonderful things. There were scientific studies that looked at gratitude and PTSD with 911 survivors and Vietnam War veterans and school shooting survivors. And what was the other one? I think it was like a tsunami or hurricane survivors that had kind of lost everything. And there was there's four different studies, but they all came up with the same conclusion, that gratitude really helps to decrease those levels of PTSD and depression and anxiety and helps to elevate those levels of happiness. So it is very steeped in science. And it's not just this, you know, kind of woowoo thing that's out there. But that true gratitude, and we can get into this in a minute. It's not by making a list of three things, it actually has to be this internal feeling that you have.

Christine Li  22:06  
Yes, thank you so much. I'm glad you know, the research and could the list it's so beautifully there. Now I'm thinking about the clients you work with. And I would love to hear the story of how you decided, Okay, I'm going to bring this to other people and just developing this entire new system for yourself of teaching. But I'm also wondering about your clients and people who may not be as high achieving, as you seem to be wired to be when you started this episode with that comment, we're all high achievers, I'm thinking to myself, I don't know if everybody's leaving as you have been. And maybe there there are people who are really I think we have all experienced at some point in our lives. Some dark place where it felt really entrenched, it felt really like it was going to go on and on and on. And that, again, another assumption on my part that with chronic illness, that there's just maybe even a greater weight of w e IG ht, I am going to be here, I'm going to be here forever, there's nothing that's going to change. And the word that comes to mind is resentment, that there's a resentment for the state you've been thrust into, that may be a block to any natural gratitude. And that making it difficult to maybe get the message through, encourage the person to gratitude. And if you could just comment and all of that, I would love that.

Holly Bertone  23:44  
Yeah, absolutely. And hopefully I remember everything that you asked. But what had happened was I started this little hobby blog called Pink fortitude. And then I, you know, it's just kind of playing around with it. And I'd write some articles here and there, and I wasn't super serious about it. But, you know, I started developing this, this community and this kind of pig for to to community. And it was so much fun. But I like to hide behind the scenes. Number one, I didn't have a lot of energy at the time as I was growing it I was, you know, healing myself and trying to get healthier. But number two, I just didn't really, I don't know, I just didn't want to be that front facing person. And it was over the last few years. And you know, you and I are in the same, you know, mastermind with James Wedmore, that I was able to really dive into the science of gratitude and for my own journey, but then also as a brought it to my community. And what's interesting when I brought it to my community, the first response was, Well, I'm not worthy of gratitude or gratitude doesn't work for me. And I'm like, wait a second. Wait a second. I'm all at this point. I'm all like, yeah, gratitude, gratitude, you know? And I'm like, why aren't you excited about this? But it's because of like you said like that resentment that, you know, feeling of I'm not good enough, or I'm always going to be in this place. And it was like, gratitude is free gratitude. There's what almost 8 billion people on the planet, every single one of us can be grateful. So why isn't this working for individuals in my community? Why do they feel that gratitude? In fact, they actually did a survey 75% said that gratitude is not for them, or that it doesn't work for like, broke my heart. And that was my big driver was how do I bring this message to them. And so that's when I did this kind of big pivot with my business was, I'm not going to hide anymore, I'm not just going to write articles, I started a podcast called The gratitude builds for to to podcast, I started one on one coaching, and I started really, you know, helping them understand that gratitude is more than a list of three things. And yes, everyone is worthy of gratitude, you are worthy of gratitude. And it starts from within. And it's really difficult when you have that place when maybe you that you get that hit from, you know, the self esteem or self worth or self love, and you're not feeling it, because of everything that you got, you've got the weather, you know, it is those chronic health challenges, or it's another type of challenge and you're in that place where you're like, I just don't want to be grateful when my mother passed in 2017, I did not want to be grateful and I was knee deep in gratitude at that point. And that's okay. I like to say meet gratitude, gratitude is that and let gratitude meet you where you're at, kind of like when you have kids, and you have different kids have different personalities, just to let gratitude meet you on that given day with where you're at. If you're having a bad day, it's okay to have a bad day. If you're having a good day, and you do want to express that gratitude, it's okay to be there too. And to meet gratitude, where you're coming from as well, feeling like it's not like you have to go from zero to one oh, I'm happy all the time, right. And I like to post on Instagram, a lot of real stories and stuff that I go through that as a gratitude coach, I'm not happy all the time. And that's okay, it's okay to be in the field, I always like to say it's okay to not be okay. But it's not okay to not be okay and not do something about it. Right. And that's where gratitude comes in, I like to say, to meet gratitude, where you're adding that gratitude meet you where you're at. So, and also, we were talking about the clients to one of my favorite clients that I like to share about is she's going through stage four cancer, and she has been for several years. And she's like, you know, I have, I have my own kids, I've got grandkids, and I have a lot to live for. And I can either look at this as a death sentence, or I can look at this as a place to live my life to the fullest every single day. And it almost reminds me of my mom, you know, just her attitude to this. And, you know, just kind of working with her and, you know, inside my program, the gratitude lab and being able to work with her and impact her and to see how she shows up every single day. In that place of gratitude. Despite, you know, one of the worst things that you can carry around with you is stage four cancer. And you know, that's that place of making that decision. Right? A couple episodes ago on your podcast, how to overcome obstacles and stay focused on your goals. And you talked about always a way to shift your mindset. There's always a way to shift your mindset it was with though the whoop, I think he called it the with methodology, right? Yes, yes. And that's a reminds me of is you know, there is always a way to shift your mindset. It's just a decision. It's not always an easy decision. But it is a simple decision.

Christine Li  28:43  
Yes, thank you, oops, by the way, is wish, outcome obstacles that you can anticipate and then your plan if you're curious, and thanks for going through the past episodes. I love your point that gratitude can be kind of a meeting of realities, right that it doesn't have to be a heavy lift, which may be mistaken thinking about what gratitude requires. Gratitude can just be about being with our present moment and not having demands of it. Sometimes that can be attractive. But it's certainly doable when you allow yourself to sink into that space. And I love your last point that gratitude can be a decision as well a decision just to have an attitude of a certain kind as well. It can be very simple. You mentioned the gratitude lab, and I'm sure that many people who are listening to this episode are going to be curious about it as well. Could you explain how you work with people at scale? Oh, yeah,

Holly Bertone  29:47  
absolutely. So I have the gratitude Lab, which is a self paced training program and then I also work with clients one on one and then I have the gratitude builds for to podcast as well. So that's how those are the three Ways that currently that people can work with me to, you know, obviously with an investment and one is totally free.

Christine Li  30:07  
Okay, does one of your programs have a community aspect to it where your individual clients are getting to know each other?

Holly Bertone  30:14  
Not yet, but that is very solid potential down the road and very soon.

Christine Li  30:21  
Okay. Okay. Wonderful. All right. So please let us know how our listeners can stay in touch with you and or work with you. Yeah, absolutely.

Holly Bertone  30:30  
So the best place to as you're listening to this podcast is to just hop on over to the Gratitude Builds Fortitude podcast, and scroll down and find the episode that really speaks to you. And you can jump on and listen there. And then hop over to Instagram Holly dot Bertone, and say hello. And you can find me there and send me a DM, let me know that you found me here and say hello.

Christine Li  30:54  
Terrific. Thank you, Holly, for your beautiful story, your beautiful victory story. And for sharing all the details and all the wisdom you've acquired over the years, you've been through lots of different journeys. And I'm so grateful to know you and grateful that you were able to share everything on the show today.

Holly Bertone  31:12  
Well, thank you so much for having me. And it's been it's been great to get to know you over the last couple of years. And I appreciate being on the show and look forward to connecting with your listeners.

Christine Li  31:21  
Wonderful. So we've had a wonderful episode everyone. If you loved the show as much as I did, please send us a review. Review the Make Time for Success podcast. Remember to subscribe. Remember to tell your friends about it. And remember to stay in touch with Holly Bertone. Thank you Holly and all my lovely listeners. I will see you next week. Bye. 

Thank you for listening to this episode of the Make Time for Success podcast. If you enjoyed what you've heard, you can subscribe to make sure you get notified of upcoming episodes. You can also visit our website maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com for past episodes, show notes and all the resources we mentioned on the show. Feel free to connect with me over on Instagram too. You can find me there under the name procrastination coach. Send me a DM and let me know what your thoughts are about the episodes you've been listening to. And let me know any topics that you might like me to talk about on the show. I'd love to hear all about how you're making time for success. Talk to you soon.

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