Rediscover Joyful Eating: A Positive Approach to Self-Care and Sustainable Habits with Amy Lang

Christine Li  0:01  
Welcome back to the Make Time for Success podcast. This is episode number 154. 

Today I have my second guest who's making a second visit to the show. I hope you remember Amy Lang from episode number 115. The episode in which we both discussed the five fundamental habits for lasting weight loss. Today, we're going to change talk a little bit, but not totally because Amy is here to celebrate the launch of her new book, Thoughts Are Habits Too. I've had the privilege of reading an advanced copy of this book, and I can tell you that it is delightful, filled with expert advice, and so very useful for anyone who is struggling with their weight shape or dieting, and or anyone who's just plain interested in developing a sane and loving way to change their habits. Amy is a master health coach, certified personal trainer, and host of the Happy and Healthy with Amy Lang podcast. She helps people who want to achieve lasting weight loss create the self-care habits that make their goal easy and inevitable. After a decade in the high-tech industry, working at companies like Netscape, Oracle, and Yahoo, Amy decided to take a chance on herself and pursue her lifelong passion real health care. She has been in the health and fitness industry since 2003, first as the owner of Pacific Heights health club in San Francisco, where she and her team helped 1000s of clients achieve their health and fitness goals. And then as the founder of Moxie Club, an online coaching business, she started in December 2019, where her reach has expanded across the US, as well as Canada, Australia, and Western Europe. She is also my dear, dear and very funny friend. Let's go listen to our conversation and her brilliance together now.

Hi, I'm Dr. Christine Li, and I'm a psychologist and a procrastination coach. I've helped 1000s of people move past procrastination and overwhelm so they can begin working to their potential. In this podcast, you're going to learn a powerful strategies for getting your mind, body and energy to work together so that you can focus on what's really important, and accomplish the goals you want to achieve. When you start living within your full power, you're going to see how being productive can be easy, and how you can create success on demand. Welcome to the Make Time for Success podcast. 

Hello, everyone. This is Dr. Christine Li. And today I am feeling very relaxed and grateful. Because I have my very wonderful friend and colleague and now a new author, here with me across the screen. And on this interview, I can't wait for you to meet her. But you've actually already met her on this podcast before her name is Amy Lang. And she's here with me today to promote her new book called Thoughts, Are Habits Too, and I just can't wait to have you listen to what she's been doing, what the book is about. And for our conversation. Welcome to the show again, Amy.

Amy Lang  3:32  
Well, thank you so much for having me back. I'm excited to be here today.

Christine Li  3:37  
Well, I love every opportunity that I have to learn from you and to talk with you. You're so funny, and you have such a chill vibe. And you know so much. And I'm really excited to talk about all things food, diet, eating, and culture with you. Because having read your book, the draft version of your book, it's wonderful. By the way, thank you for all the hard work you've put into it. Having read the book, I know that we have so many things that we can cover in this episode together. So can I just start off with a question, what was your inspiration for saying, Okay, it's time for me to write this book and actually doing it.

Amy Lang  4:23  
Hmm. So Well, I think I've always wanted to write a book. I just didn't know what I wanted to write about. I was actually thinking more maybe fiction instead of nonfiction, but with all the coaching I was doing, and then as I was wanting to level up, one of the certification programs I went through was actually for intuitive eating to become an intuitive eating certified counselor. And interestingly enough, I went through the whole process, I got the certification, but I found memorably disagreed with some of the things that they were saying. I found them disempowering. So I was like, Okay, well, I have an opinion, I'm going to own my expertise here. Because I've owned a health club for 15 plus years of coaching people for so long. And what I observed and what they were proposing, it didn't work for me. And so I was like, Well, how do I help people then, who maybe feel the same way, but don't know what to do instead? And so that's where this whole idea around rediscovering joyful eating came about. I

Christine Li  5:37  
love that it was an organic process that it kind of came to you rather than you going and seeking it actively. That's beautiful. You make me curious, what kinds of things? Were they saying that you felt were disempowering? Could you give us a couple of examples?

Amy Lang  5:52  
Sure. I mean, the very first principle that they have, and if you go to their website, it's right there. Principle number one says, reject the diet mentality. And I am 100% behind that statement. But the very next sentence on their website says, to get angry at diet culture, and all the lies that you've been told, and all this promises for the quick fix. Yeah, and I'm, I'm sort of paraphrasing, but it starts with get get angry. And to me, when you get angry, you're giving your power away. And then energy isn't available to you, if that's where it's tied up. And part of me also understands that if you're angry, it means some part of you believes what's being told. And you're right, it you've internalized that, and then you're rejecting that part. And so one of the chapters in my book, and actually, even in the subtitle, I say, free yourself from diet culture. So really is looking at the underlying belief system, the premise, and really evaluating it, examining it asking, Is it true? Right, there's always the four questions. Is it kind? Is it helpful? Is it necessary? Is it true, right, I changed the order of I usually start with is it true? And when you look at the underlying belief system of diet culture, one of the things that it really is based on is this idea, this notion that your self worth is dependent, like it's a function of the size and shape of your body. And when I say it that way, like, if I asked you, is that true? Like in your heart of hearts? Do you really believe that your worth has anything to do with the size and shape of your body? Like, we always talk about beauty is you know that there's like the inner beauty. This is the stuff that we really want to embrace. I want to be healthy, how does that thought helped me be healthy? And if it doesn't, what a different thought.

Christine Li  8:10  
I love that. And you're really touching upon how complex this entire sphere that you've briefly taken on for the book is right? Because even the concept of anger around food, and dieting, or what people are thinking about you and your weight and shape, or what you're thinking about your own weight and shape, just that alone is a whole universe to unpack, and you've taken just all the complexity, and brought your lovely attitude, which we've already heard in just the past few minutes to this very complicated. And I would say drama inducing topic that we can all I think if you're an eater at all, look, and I think with the diet culture, that there are a lot of emotional ups and downs about how do we do this? How do we find our happiness? How do we find what is intuitive to us? Things like that. And I know you have these beautiful frameworks in the book and in your mind, about how to approach the whole concept of how do I straighten out my own system so that I can feel calm enough to change my habits for the better change my habits for health? Do you want to share a couple of principles that you might really love with us now?

Amy Lang  9:33  
Sure. Ask the question again, just if you could just give us some

Christine Li  9:40  
of the core ideas that you make sure that you coach your clients in things that are absolutely essential to ground people in a positive mindset about the fact that they can change what might have been very upsetting or disordered in their past behavior. Okay,

Amy Lang  9:58  
so you One of the things that is key is to come from a place of self love. So I always talk, in the previous episode, when I was here with you, I talked about the fundamental five self care habits. And I say self care, and that packed with a lot of meaning, I really am talking about coming from this place of, you're good enough already. And you deserve to feel better. You deserve to, you would want to take care of yourself, think about anything that you love in your life, or any one or we were talking before you hit the record button about my puppy who just turned one. If you're a parent, and you have kids, that love is probably even deeper than for your dog or your pet. We want to take care of them. It doesn't matter what they look like, I'm crooked, take care. Think about that. Like, would you not take care of something because of the way it look, if you love your car, you're gonna wash it, you're gonna take it in for service. So I want whatever we're choosing to do to come from a place of love, of acceptance of being good enough already. That's the first thing. The second thing is, when you're coming from that place, then this idea about forming healthy habits of playing the long game, come into play. This is where we start thinking in terms of falling in love with the process and not worrying about that result, that destination. How do we practice detaching from that outcome? Because there's a quote from I can't remember who she is. But she talks about how like how we live our days is how we ultimately live our life. So do you want to look back on your life? If you have a history of dieting? Is that how you want to live your life? I mean, that's I think, also why so many people when they go on diets, they like go for a set period of time, I want to lose weight, and then I'll go back to my life. I've put it on hold while I'm doing this. And it's a series of those things. And that's, that's not how we want to live our lives. I mean, I Yeah, few Perry recently passed away. And I think I read that he had gone to rehab something like 65 times in his life, that's not something he wanted to do. But if you've tried dieting multiple times a year, you may very well have been on 65 different diets of one form or another? Is that how you want to live your life? I would say probably not, how about creating habits that you want to have for the rest of your life where you're taking better care of yourself, so that you can feel good, so you can show up the way you want to. So those are two. The third one is to know your why. What is it you really want. So one of the things in intuitive eating that I didn't talk about earlier, was this idea. So to reject the diet mentality, they really are saying like, stop focusing on weight loss, let your body find its, they call it their, the natural setpoint. And there, they really push against this concept of a healthy weight. In a healthcare setting, if we're talking about a particular BMI range as being deemed normal or healthy, and your body composition, the the way you're built, puts you like the overweight end of it, then it can do a number on your on your self esteem, your self worth all that stuff, your body image. So they really push hard against that. And so what I tried to do is, if it's a loaded term for you, I talk about optimal weight, I say, let's understand, for what you want to do in your life, the things you want to be able to do. If part of that y is to find an optimal weight for yourself, then let's do that. What does that look like? And what would you be doing to support that? Because it's part of your whole life. It's not this idea of like when I lose the weight, then I'll be happy. I want again, it's this. I'm already feeling good. And this is how I'm taking care of myself. It

Christine Li  14:24  
sounds like you're really taking the distress out of the process of the outset, and helping people to really chart a beautiful path for some change, but a desirable change and a doable change. And that just taking the stress out of the process of changing your behavior is such a gift to people and so much a role of a great coach.

Amy Lang  14:52  
Is that how you see it? Yeah, I mean, you put it I think in terms of taking the stress out. I have this idea of the abundance principle, which is that we want to make our choices when we're in a state of abundance. So I'm always talking about, however we're thinking about it, if it's coming from the sort of place of lack or scarcity, to question it, and how can we make it easier for ourselves. So yeah, to take away some of that stress. And there's even this whole idea of good stress versus bad stress, or use stress versus distress, the challenge response, the threat response, we want to not trigger the threat response, which is coming from this place of, I'm afraid, I'm not gonna have what I need, I'm afraid I don't have what it takes, I don't have access to the resources that I need, I don't have the time, whatever that is. And instead, thinking it and I usually say it helps if you look at the bigger picture, if you find yourself in that state, see if you can back up, get from, you know, like the 50 foot level to the 1000 foot level or even 10,000 foot level, try to create some distance, try to get some objectivity, even. So that you can discern, you can really take a look at like, how am I interpreting what's happening? And how can I think about it differently, so that the next step is actually feeling really easy.

Christine Li  16:25  
I love that. And I think when we're focusing on what the scale is saying, or how big our portion is that it has a way of narrowing our viewpoint or viewfinder or perspective, and it sounds like what you're doing is helping people to just feel comfortable thinking bigger, and thinking about more possibilities about how their results can be achieved more flexibly that you don't have to put yourself in a small container anymore, that you don't have to deprive yourself to make changes happen. And that's sounds just lovely to me.

Amy Lang  17:03  
Well, I'm hoping that it sounds lovely to everybody that's listening. Yes, yes,

Christine Li  17:08  
me too. Can you share with us maybe a case study of someone who was saddled with maybe a fixed belief or a limiting belief, and that you just helped them to say, You know what, that's actually not where I want to go, or that's not actually the path that is actually going to get me the result that I want. Hmm. You can even use a personal example, if you Hi,

Amy Lang  17:34  
yeah, I was actually thinking probably my own. My own is the one that I can probably like, there. It's like a series of thought shifts that happen. So in the book I talk about, and I'm just going to share the story. So it's in the first chapter. And so I was 14 years old, and my family we sat down watched the Dukes of Hazzard on Friday nights. And I have this memory of my dad, saying to me, when Catherine box character, Daisy Duke came on the screen, he said, she has the perfect figure. Okay, now, this woman, I believe she was 25 years old at the time. She's five foot eight, if you're not familiar with what she looks like, so she's, she's tall, and she's very long legged, you know, very lean. It's, she's not I wouldn't call her super curvy. Except she had good boobs. And so her outfits always felt you know that. She she showed off her midriff, right, nice flat tummy. And her boobs, she had cleavage. And so this is, as a 14 year old girl, this is what I remember. Now, in the book, I have a picture of me at 14. And I'm a teenager, I'm kind of gaki I got the big glasses and stuff like that. But that was sort of in my head. That's what I was supposed to be trying to look like, because what child doesn't want a parent's approval. I'm proud of you for that kind of thing. And so I was in my late 30s. And I had taken over the health club. I had lost weight. I had been working with a trainer gotten really strong and fit all that great stuff. I was at 22% body fat, which is pretty good. And I had gained, like five pounds. I'm met up with one of the trainers there who happens to be a life coach as well. His name is David McGuire. And David asked me when was the last time you were happy with your body? And I couldn't think of one despite so like I figured out how to be stronger and fit. You know, it goes back to that idea of like when you lose the weight then you'll be happy. I could go in my closet and There are a bunch of clothes that didn't fit before that I could now like Google like, right. But guess what, I still had outfits in my closet that were from when I was even smaller, maybe like, high school, beginning of college right kind of thing. And I wanted to be able to fit into those that was like, I was stuck in that. And it wasn't until I went to Japan, in Tokyo for a friend's wedding. And I saw all these Japanese women who are really, really thin. And that was the version of thing that my mom aspired to. She wanted to, and I looked at that and I'm like, This is not what I want. Like, this is not it, this is, and all of a sudden, I had this. So this is the first time where my brain was like, I have my own definition of success. What I care about matters, what I want matters. So it's this sort of combination of things, right? Different points in my life where I got an idea. And then later on, I have to, like, challenge the idea, and come up with what's my own. And then that moment where I finally was able to sort of separate those two things about the size and shape of my body, and my words, and then it became, oh, I'm not doing this to lose weight, I'm doing this to take care of myself, that's a fundamentally different place to be coming from, and making choices from. And so for me, that's what happened. And you know, you talk about the stress level goes down, guess what your body likes it better when you're not stressed. It doesn't have to hold on to the weight on you're not stressed. Because when you're stressed, you're you're sending your body into this fight or flight, right? It's saying my wants and needs are at risk of not being met. If I'm in survival mode, I need to hold on to this stuff. Because our brains are thinking, I might not be able to get my next meal back, right? There's like some old programming there that we have no control over. Yes. So that's where that was my sort of how I got to this place of where I'm like, we want to come from a place of self love. And see it as self care. And not selfish at all right? That that's about being able to show up like, oh, like every day is a little different. I'm not perfect. I mean, there's some days where it's like, I'm a hot mess. Right? I can't, I can't talk straight, I can't think straight. But most of the time when I catch myself doing that, it is like taking a few deep breaths, and really calming down, getting some perspective, right? Finding something funny to laugh about. And I think all of that stuff really helps to then make a better choice.

Christine Li  22:54  
I love that you are coming through on this episode really clearly all the things I love about you, your wisdom, your ability to synthesize all different things like mindset, and behavior, and personal history, and errant beliefs that we picked up from somewhere wherever those triggering thoughts and memories that can activate all sorts of patterns that sometimes are good and sometimes are not so good for us. And I love that. You have it all in your book now. And I'm so proud of you for doing the work and having your beautiful attitude throughout. You know, just sharing what you've learned, what you've been through, and all the wonderful gifts of how to change in a way that's healthy for you. So I just want to say thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And I want to encourage everyone to really pick up this book, because it's also funny, and you've already heard AV event. And her humor comes through in the book as well. I'm just curious if you wouldn't mind sharing with us what it was like to actually write the book, the process of getting all of these complex thoughts onto paper or on your screen?

Amy Lang  24:13  
Well, I worked with a company that helps people who want to Self Publish, and they had a whole process set up. So I still, I've always thought of myself as a good writer. And I've been told that I'm a good writer, you are a good writer in terms of identity. That wasn't something I was worried about. I had all these thoughts trying to figure out how to organize them. I remember they gave us different actors, the company I'm talking about they had all these sort of different exercises that I could do to try to come up with an outline. And it was it was really interesting because coming up with an outline made it feel like it was set in stone. He didn't want to do that. I was always interesting resistance. And then I have like a free chat. her check in, I want to say was back in April. So this, this process has actually been quite fast I started in January, didn't really take it seriously, for like three months, just kind of putting down ideas. April, I had a three chapter check in, the editor looked at, and she's like, I'm a little concerned, you don't get much. And I'm like, I'll be fine. And I had a 3030 day check in before like, edit month, which. So this is all their proprietary process that they have in place. I worked with a storytelling coach, that was the most fun. That was the most fun I had. His name is Michael Hague, if you get an opportunity, he has a book. But if you get the opportunity to work with him, I think he's wonderful. And I think that he helped me to, I think, make the book so much better. Because I think it really is, through stories, that we get to share what we've learned, in a way where I'm not just sort of telling you, this is what you need to do. Right? And, and so many people hear that and they use the word should I should do this, I should do that. I'm like, you might not find the word should in this book. Unless I'm actually dispelling the need to have it right. Because should is all about judging ourselves, I should do this, I shouldn't do this. I'm a good person, when I'm not a good person, like I did something wrong, or all of that stuff that undermines our ability to choose better. Cause should cut sounds like it's coming from the outside, doesn't it showed us like a rule that you're supposed to follow? Who came up with the rule? Even if you came up with the rule? Maybe it's just a guideline. Right? Rule rules are meant to have exceptions to them, too. So I really hesitate to use words like should yeah,

Christine Li  26:55  
for me should conveys pressure. And, you know, I, I'm right along there with you thinking that pressure is just not going to be helpful. If you want to do something for yourself. That's healthy.

Amy Lang  27:06  
Right. So in the process, it was telling those stories that really helped to share, like, this is what I learned from it. This is a an example of what I went through or what one of my clients went through, that really helped to make it come to life, right. It's not just a rule or concept. It's this is now the application. And so in coaching, so much of it is like, as you listen to this podcast, we're covering concepts, but concepts don't work unless we apply them in less we integrate them into our life. And coaching is about helping people I think, do that part. You know, books can talk about concepts, but then figuring out okay, well, what am I doing in my life? Do I like what's a core belief that limits me? That doesn't serve me? That's not true. And if it's something I had from when I was like four years old, am I going to be able to identify it? Where someone else can listen to and go? Oh, I just heard you say this. Do you hear yourself say this? Write that out? Yeah, so yeah, so the process of writing the book, let me just go back to so I had the storytelling coach. And then we had edit months, went back and forth on that. And then now we're just in the final stages of editing it and proofing it and whole, like I got the last digital proof of printed proof. And then I'm like, they're using an old version of the cover, things like that. So it does help to work with a company that has been there and done it so that you don't have to learn all those things you can get, you get to focus on the writing. Beautiful. That's what I did.

Christine Li  28:56  
I'm glad it was a successful process for you and that you enjoyed the storytelling, coaching. In addition to that, that sounds lovely. You're reminding me of what I think I said in our first episode together about your ability to be really logical, and really creative. At the same time, you're kind of like an investigator and a seer of facts and data and how things are running. But also you're creative and generative and imaginative and I love that mix about you. And I think that's all in the book, as well. By the way, it's a really lively read. She's got wonderful stories, case, examples, jokes, principles for how to change your thinking everything is in this wonderful book. So I'm just gonna just really hype it up.

Amy Lang  29:48  
Thank you for your very generous very kind with your words. You are like the ultimate strength finder. I feel like every time I see you in racked was not just me. But with people around, you're so good at being able to help people, like see their strengths, because I think part of what makes things easy is playing to your strengths. And knowing that strengths are not like we have, we can be strong in one area and learn how to take those things and transfer them to other areas to like, we talked about growth mindset fit, fixed mindset, right? There's, there's that like, you're not just good at this thing. You can be good at other stuff, too. It might take you a little while, depending on your background, your experience, your interest, all that kind of stuff. resistor. So your or your right, your motivation. But yeah, you're just so you're so good at that. So thank you all.

Christine Li  30:48  
Thank you for saying that. I love that. I appreciate that. You're helping me to know myself. So thank you. Thank you. So let's share with our listeners how they can actually get their hands on at least a piece of this book. I know you have something prepared. Yeah,

Amy Lang  31:03  
yeah. So I have the first chapter available. As an excerpt, you can go to thoughts or habits to.com. So it's all one word. And you may get redirected to another website. But that's the easiest way for you to remember it. It's thoughts are habits to.com. And you can get the excerpt get on my mailing list. And I will let you know as soon as the book is actually available. It's soon but because I'm working with another company, I haven't learned all the steps. So I don't know between now. And when it's going to be available, like how much time there is, but it soon, depending on when this is released, it may very well already be out at that point. So but it's a moving target, because there are it's not everything that's under my control, either. It'll be going through amazon.com. Okay,

Christine Li  31:56  
sounds great. So thoughts are habits to.com For the first chapter. Just feel free to get that right now, right after you turn off this episode, that'll be great. Stay in touch with Amy because she's got so much to share not just about food, diet and eating. By the way. She's a coach on lots of different topics, including sleep, well being exercise, hydration, she's definitely someone you want to follow. And Amy, I'm just curious, what would you want our listeners to remember walking away from this episode, maybe something in particular about their relationship with food eating and their self esteem?

Amy Lang  32:41  
I think always just once you become aware of a thought that we take a moment to pause. So if you can really practice becoming an observer of your thoughts, and recognize you are not your thoughts, you are thinking your thoughts. Viktor Frankl talks about that, right? Like there's that space in that space. There's a moment. And this is where we get to grow. This is where we get to learn. This is where we really get to question like, examine it. Is it true? Is it helpful? Is it kind? Is it necessary? If you answer yes to any of those questions, let's say you this true, is it set in a kind way? If it's not, then can you frame it in a way where it's kind? It's helpful, right? All of those things like I want to be able to say yes to all of those before we move forward. And I think you'll find that moving forward becomes much easier when you're able to state it that way for yourself.

Christine Li  33:46  
And things are allowed to be easy. I'm going to add that little piece before we add. So Amy hugs from across the screen and the microphone. I love you to pieces. Thank you so much. And congratulations again. Oh,

Amy Lang  34:01  
well. Thank you very, very much. And thank you for having me. Oh my god. I'm wonderful.

Christine Li  34:06  
It's our pleasure. Thank you, audience for listening to us. Again, we will be happy to be promoting Amy's book moving forward. And Amy, you have a podcast as well. Can you remind us what the title of your podcast is? It's a great podcast as well.

Amy Lang  34:23  
Wow. It's called Happy and Healthy with Amy Lang. And actually, there's one other thing related to the book. I have made a joyful eating roadmap available for free. So there's a little like quiz to help you figure out what things you want to focus on first, to help you take those next steps that are best for you.

Christine Li  34:47  
Is that in the first chapter is that a separate link? If

Amy Lang  34:51  
you go to thoughtsarehabitstoo.com I will make sure folks can find it there too. But I was thinking like besides the excerpt I could see I had something else. And that's pretty much the roadmap, the joyful eating roadmap, you'll get to learn what joyful eating is all about as well, because we didn't really talk about that in this but there's got to be something you need to actually read the book for. Right?

Christine Li  35:15  
Absolutely joyful eating sounds like a really great goal for reading the book. So, let's support all of our listeners. Thank you so much, again for being here. And thank you listeners for sharing your time with us. We appreciate it. All right, take care Amy. Bye everyone else. 

Thank you for listening to this episode of the Make Time for Success podcast. If you enjoyed what you've heard, you can subscribe to make sure you get notified of upcoming episodes. You can also visit our website maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com for past episodes, show notes and all the resources we mentioned on the show. Feel free to connect with me over on Instagram too. You can find me there under the name procrastination coach. Send me a DM and let me know what your thoughts are about the episodes you've been listening to. And let me know any topics that you might like me to talk about on the show. I'd love to hear all about how you're making time for success. We'll talk to you soon!

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