"Self First is Not Selfish": Learning to Define Success from the Inside Out with Shelley Paxton

Christine Li  0:01  
Welcome back to the Make Time for Success podcast. This is episode 83. Have you ever had the experience of knowing that you were not going in the right direction for yourself or for your career? As the former Chief Marketing Officer of Harley Davidson, my special guest, Shelley Paxton, found herself at the top of the proverbial mountain feeling success empty instead of success full. That awakening led her on a profound journey that became her mission, her new business, and best selling book Soul Radical, a corporate rebels guide to finding your best life. She's leading a revolution to rewrite the script of success and liberate a billion souls. She's also the host of The Rebel Souls podcast, which invites you to challenge the status quo and life, business and the world at large. Shelley is a powerful speaker and advocate for are doing the right things for our lives. And for us paying attention to what our souls are really trying to tell us. I hope you enjoy meeting Shelley as much as I did. While I interviewed her for this show. Let's go listen to the episode now.

Hi, I'm Dr. Christine Li, and I'm a psychologist and a procrastination coach. I've helped 1000s of people move past procrastination and overwhelm so they can begin working to their potential. In this podcast, you're going to learn a powerful strategies for getting your mind, body and energy to work together so that you can focus on what's really important, and accomplish the goals you want to achieve. When you start living within your full power, you're going to see how being productive can be easy, and how you can create success on demand. 

Welcome to the Make Time for Success podcast. Hi, everyone. Thank you for being here on the Make Time for Success Podcast. I'm Dr. Christine Li. And today I have a new friend and colleague to introduce to you we've had a really nice conversation so far today just getting ready. I want to welcome Shelley Paxton to the show. She's an author, speaker and movement maker. Her movement is called Soul Radical. And I can't wait to hear from Shelley all that she has to share. Thank you so much for being here, Shelley.

Shelley Paxton  2:32  
Thank you for the invitation. I'm excited to dig in.

Christine Li  2:35  
Yes, yes, me too. I can't wait to hear about all the topics that you focus on. I know we have a lot of overlapping interests, including commitment to your purpose and your word, and two pathways to success that do not drain the living life out of you. So let's start here. And let's start with you just introducing yourself and telling us anything that you feel you'd want to share.

Shelley Paxton  3:05  
Yeah, absolutely, and amen to alignment. I love meeting other people, women in particular, we're on the same mission. And however, we can all support each other on this journey. I'm all for it. So I'd love that good starting point. As for me, I'm somebody who spent the majority of my adult life 26 years in the corporate world. And I had a pretty high flying career in the advertising and marketing space. I worked on really pretty sexy, iconic brands from visa to McDonald's to AOL to PepsiCo, and Intel and so many brands over over the years and then got to the top of the mountain and became Chief Marketing Officer of Harley Davidson. So that was sort of, you know, what people talk about is, you know, having made it in quotes, right? So I made it, I'm at the, you know, I met the tippy top, I'm in this rarefied air. And I have this experience that some of your listeners might be able to relate to where it's like, huh, yeah, it's this is all real sexy on the outside, and I've ticked all these boxes of traditional success. And I did everything everyone told me to do. And I have one of the sexiest jobs in marketing and why the hell do I feel so empty inside? And I felt really guilty for asking myself the question of why, you know, is this all there is, right? Why didn't anybody tell me you know, and then I realized through a series of events that we can dive into if you want to, that I was living my dad's dream. And I got to this point that I think a lot of people get to, because we do the things that we think we should do instead of what our soul is really crying to us to do. And I feel Success empty instead of success, full. And so that's what I talked about now as part of my big mission is rewriting the script of success. And what does that look like uniquely for each one of us? So that's the story in a nutshell, we can dive, you can take this anywhere you want to go.

Christine Li  5:18  
Okay, great. Thank you for sharing that. That's a great story. It definitely sounds familiar. There are, I can think of several guests that I've had on the show, who had a moment where they realize they needed to change all the things because they were headed towards something that was better for them made much more sense for their lives and their careers. And that always makes it a great story, too. So thank you for sharing yours. Yeah.

Shelley Paxton  5:47  
Can I just weigh in for a second, just to say, and I know, it probably sounds even more familiar right now, because we're on the heels of this two year pandemic that has shaken all of us up, right. Usually, it's for an individual, it's illness or tragedy, or in my case, it was this nightmare and illness that just really wakes you up to what is your truth. And in this case, we're all coming out of this two year pandemic that crystallized what matters most. And now it's up to us to create going forward in a way that feels more aligned with our truth. So I think this concept of redefining success is really present for so many of us right now.

Christine Li  6:32  
I would agree. And I'm going to ask my first question, which is, that word crystallize, makes me think, Ah, I'm wondering if it is really crystallizing for people. What about the set of people who might be listening? who feel a shift, but don't exactly know which way to go or which way they want to go? And I think that's connected to another question about your own journey, in terms of what were the signs that you were dissatisfied, because the jobs do really sound like they were fun and sexy and kind of high. So I could see someone really enjoying those jobs, too, and getting a lot of fulfillment. So what were the signs for you? And what would you say to someone if they're just confused right now?

Shelley Paxton  7:22  
Yeah, yeah, fair enough. And believe me, I still have moments of confusion. So I will definitely get to that. So why don't you tell a bit more of my story, and then we can roll into that piece. So for me, Honey, listen, our bodies are always telling us the truth. So when we get when we get sick, when we're exhausted, when we're burnt out? These are our bodies crying for us, like everybody. So what's the truth? They're crying for us to listen and know that something is out of alignment? We are we are not paying attention. Right? And one of my favorite questions is what are you pretending not to know? Because so often, we're asking for advice. And we're saying, Oh, if only the company would let me go with a big severance package, or only if this thing would happen. We're basically asking somebody else to make a decision on something we already know needs to happen. But of course, it's scary. It's super scary. And I get that piece of it. You know, we're in oftentimes, I mean, I know in my case, I was letting go of everything I've ever known as an adult in my career, and it was letting go of financial security. And that's oftentimes the scariest piece. So for me, how did this happen? Well, so when I was 45, so I was, I was at Harley for a total of six and a half years. And you're right, it was a sexy job, and I got to ride motorcycles around the world. And I have zero regrets not for that part of my career, or any of the whole 26 years of my career. They served me well. But what became very clear as I started to have this nightmare that was literally waking me up. So I think it's the the first chapter of my book that's called, you know, called, like, you know, getting woke, literally. And so my soul universe conspired to go okay, well, she hasn't been listening, you know, she's been really sick, like, anytime I would should on myself, right? Like, I would follow the path down to should, I would inevitably get sick, I would inevitably have a massive setback. And then, because I was very much in my masculine, I'd be like, I can plow through this. I can, you know, pull myself back up by the bootstraps, I am strong, I don't need help. And I would, quote unquote, plow through the thing. And so in this case, I was 45 years old. And it was my you know, fifth, you know, the run the fifth year at Harley. And I was getting ripped out of my sleep every night to am crying, sweating. You're seeing the same Nightmare Night after night after her night. And it got to a point where I could hardly function. And yet, I didn't know how to ask for help. So I would try to piece myself back together and put on all my shiny clothes, you know, called it my armor, right? They put it pretty close, and my big jewelry and my fancy shoes and all the things that I would go in. And it was like, I was fooling everybody, because I was a mess inside. And I was afraid to ask for help. And ultimately, it got so bad, I wasn't sleeping, I was barely functioning, I was trying to drink myself to sleep to incapacitate these nightmares. And I finally went to a doctor and said, I can't go on like, I'm not going to survive until I'm 50. If I keep living this way, and he introduced me now we're at about age 46. Because this went on for the entire final year that I was at Harley.

He introduced me to meditation. And he guided me very gently and very slowly into something that was an incredibly foreign practice. To me, this idea of slowing down what my whole identity had been premised on this idea of busyness being a badge of honor. So this idea of slowing down and getting still and checking in and just kind of letting those thoughts pass. And it was really hard. You know, I joke in the book that you know, I would do my grocery list and my to do list and think about who was sexiest and the Game of Thrones, like all the things right. But the reality is, over time, I did start to slow down and the dust you know, it's like the the the snow globe metaphor, right, the Snow did start to settle. And I could start to see more clearly. And what I saw was that what I was seeing in the nightmare, which was essentially my dog who had died six years prior, I was seeing in the nightmare that my dog was still alive. And I was finding him in this little utility closet, basically dying on the floor because I've been neglecting him for five years. And through meditation, I understood that my dog mocha was the proxy for my soul. And my soul was crying out to me longing to be fed and loved and nourished and listened to. And that was the big wake up for me. And what I would say to anybody is we typically like the signs are there, the you know, our soul whispers and then it shouts and then it whacks us with a two by four in some way, shape or form, right? Yes. And that's what happens. So that slowing down, whether it's simply slowing down, getting quiet, you know your version of meditation or true guided meditation, there's so much power in getting quiet, so much power and getting quiet. That would be the first step. Because a lot of the confusion that we feel about, oh, I don't know, do I go left? Do I go right? Do I go straight? Do I go backwards? Do I go, you know, all of that confusion tends to be because the dust is still kicking up the snow and the snow globe is still vigorously moving around. And we can't see clearly to even take one tiny step forward. And that's all it takes to get in motion is one tiny step. And the universe usually will show us another sign and I call them breadcrumbs give us a little bread crumb. And you know what every badass accomplishment is a series of tiny steps, every single one of us nobody is taking a giant leap. We're all taking baby steps. So yeah, that was a lot. So I don't know if there's anything in there that you want to unpack. But that's my story. And one of the ways that I would say, to get started if you're feeling that confusion, but that restlessness of I know this, isn't it?

Christine Li  14:04  
Yes. So thank you for sharing the story. And thank you for sharing the details of the nightmare because I must have been incredibly fall for you day after day and then connecting the dots over that and realizing that there was something really missing from the way things were in those years for you. Yeah, what other signs were nudging at you? What other signs and symptoms were you experiencing?

Shelley Paxton  14:36  
Yeah, I had been through as I started looking kind of retrospectively, I realized that I had been through a series of illnesses. So I kind of mentioned that were, you know, I wasn't really stopping to reflect on why were those things happening. What was causing that and as I was writing the book, I realized there was a really clear correlation between When I said I should do something, and I talked myself into the thing that society thinks you should do your parents think you should do you think, you know, successful executives do? Inevitably, I would feel terrible, I would get very sick, something would go very wrong. And so I started to realize like, oh, well, that's my compass. That's my body telling me the truth. That's, that is my soul saying, You are not in alignment. And here's the other thing, and this might resonate with folks as well. The question that became really powerful for me, because especially because I was the age I was when I was, so I was 46. When I left Harley, which seemed insane to most people, this idea that, you know, I like what else you're gonna go do it 46, who would reinvent themselves at 46? Or 50? Or whatever? And the answer is, any one of us can, any one of us can, there are no rules here. And so I started really thinking as I was understanding what this nightmare was telling me, and of course, a lot of fear was being kicked up as I was trying to make sense of all of it. I kept thinking, you know, what's life gonna be like, if I keep doing this when I'm 50 years old? And do I want to feel that way? Because 50 felt like such an important milestone. So I started asking myself the question like, okay, so if I keep living the way I'm living for the next five, or 10 or 15 years, am I moving closer to who I want to become? or further away? And when the answer for me was consistently, yeah, I'm going further away from how I want to show up powerfully in the world, and more importantly, the way I want to feel, which is why I'm really obsessed with this idea of successful because it really is reframing success, its success as a feeling, not as a checklist, and its success as something that happens from the inside out. Not all this external validation that we're so used to, right. And that's what really got me right, like, will I be closer to who I want to become? And will I feel like my most powerful self? Or will I feel like I'm just exhausted and shriveling up and maybe not even survived to be 50? Because who knows? If I would have stayed on, you know, kind of that that burnout wheel and feeling so unfulfilled? I mean, it has huge implications in our mental health as well.

Christine Li  17:46  
And what is the transformation been like for you, since you've decided to follow those nudges? And partly, and to start this movement of sabbatical, to write the book to speak about your story? What has happened to your body and your spirit in the process?

Shelley Paxton  18:06  
Yeah, well, I can tell you that I am a lot brighter, more energetic, I feel like the most powerful version of myself. And listen, this didn't happen overnight. So I don't want to I don't want to paint a story that all of this was easy. This journey that I've been on for five and a half years now truly was step by step, the most difficult decision I made, was to take that to say, I need to leave Harley to find out who I am. And to really understand my identity outside of, you know, this really amazing corporate career and supporting all of these iconic brands. And I asked myself, like, what if the Shelly Paxton brand was the most iconic brand I could ever represented, which sounded really cool, but it's also terrifying at the same time. So So I want to be really honest to say, yeah, it was terrifying. And it's the most rewarding set of steps and decisions I've ever made, like, looking at fear in the eye and saying, Yeah, but this is better than feeling totally miserable, and not alive when I'm 50 years old. And instead at 50 years old, as a result of taking those steps. I mean, let's be clear. I had no idea what direction I was going. I made up this word called sabbatical because everybody around me was telling me I was crazy to leave this job that hardly to walk away from a career and I said, I don't know if I'm walking away from a career. I might end up back. I'm giving myself 12 months. Maybe I won't even last 12 months and that's okay, too. So I would also say to anybody who's thinking about this one, sabbatical doesn't mean leaving your job. It means finding yourself. Give yourself have space and time, even if it's a long weekend, if it's a week away, give yourself space and some of this quiet to start digging in. I've set some questions in my book where I tell my story. And then I pause so that we can go on a journey together, you can hold up the mirror and say, yeah, how do I feel about those things? Right? This is really about living a life that's more authentic, more courageous, and more purposeful, and doing success on your terms. So what that looks like, for anybody listening is going to be different than you were i And I love that I celebrate that. And it's also not going to happen overnight. So the steps that I took that I called sabbatical, and it christened myself this crazy title, Chief soul officer. And I was like, I did that because one, I wanted something I wanted to handle for people, and I'm a marketer. So it made sense. And I wanted a title because I was super title sensitive at the time. And having a title meant I would have an obligation and a responsibility, in this case, to my soul, which is my essence and my truth and my values. And so that worked for me. But I invite everybody to go on, you know, there are ways to I have all kinds of exercises and questions in the book that will help you maybe get a little bit more clear and a little bit more still around, you know, what is what is bubbling up for you? What does that next right step look like? And it could simply be carving out more time for yourself. This is kind of the radical self commitment that you were alluding to in the intro, you know, perhaps the starting point for anyone is, what does it look like to get clear on your values to create a little bit of time because I believe we hear a lot about self care, and radical self care. And while I Yes, I'm all day long, I subscribe to get the mani pedi get the bubble bath, go to the spa. Do the things take the vacation? Yes, yes, yes to all of that. There's a bigger idea that I think we're missing. And the bigger idea is this idea of radical self commitment, which starts with knowing ourselves, knowing what truly are my values? What is my truth, so then I can create boundaries around those things. And I can create a life in service of those things. And I can determine how I want to prioritize my time and move forward. And so that idea to me is a game changer. So now I think about this idea of like, and you know, well being is the piece of it, too. So what would it look like just simply start with what I call me things like capital m capital E, put that time on your calendar, give yourself that grace and that space to just get quiet. Really get clear on your values. Get clear on what matters to you do an exercise in my book, I have soul fuels versus soul sucks, get real clear on what's lighting you up and what's draining you. These are little ways that we can start to like, get more and more and more focused in on what really brings us alive.

Christine Li  23:37  
Yes, thank you for that. I was just going to ask how do you help people to make the time find the time for this exploration? So I love that with the meetings. And what else? Do you offer people because I'm thinking about the women who might be listening and who might be interested in your work. And that transformation, those women who are really connected and attached and almost bound to serving other people before the House. So it may not be the corporate job, it might not be the title for them. It might be well, my time goes to other people first. So how am I supposed to manage this sabbatical thing?

Shelley Paxton  24:24  
Yeah, and you know, so bad. So radical is a choice. It's a way of being right. So this is how I like to think about it. You know, the traditional sabbatical is like, Okay, I'm disappearing from this thing for a while then returning to this thing. Vacation is a whole different thing altogether. sabbatical is I'm going to choose to show up in my life and for myself in a very different way. So I think I think that's an incredibly important distinction to you know, as as a starting point, right? And yeah, and carving out the time for ourselves. doing some of these exercises, I forgot where you remind me what your question is, because I just I said that and then I forgot.

Christine Li  25:06  
My question is, what about the women who resist that resist taking care of themselves before?

Shelley Paxton  25:12  
Yeah. Yeah, and I think this is this is the hardest thing for us as women, right? I mean, I think this is part of the conditioning. And one of the things so here's the bumper sticker, and the t shirt, and the mug and all the things I want to make that says, self first isn't selfish, period, end of story with four exclamation points behind it. And I think that's really important, because I know this from my work and from my own journey, and I suspect you do, too, it is impossible for me to show up in the way I want to show up for my community. And being as passionate and as energetic as I am. If I'm not taking care of me, everyone would feel it, my light would be dim, I would probably be slumping over if I if I'm not taking care of myself. So I think first is the acknowledgement of self versus unselfish. And then one of the practices that I use that might be helpful is in fact, I have one right here, I was reading information when you were giving me some of billable notes before. So I use orange post, it's orange happens to be my color, it's the color of my brand, my favorite color all over my house. As you can see, if you're watching the video, and I do a little exercise every single morning, these are my permission slips. And especially for women, I think we have to build this muscle of giving ourselves permission. Now, whatever you need to give your self permission for that might be different. But here's the question that I asked every morning, and I invite you to ask yourself as well, or ask it before a big meeting, or ask it before you're taking your kids on vacation. I like to ask it every day because it keeps me honest. And I say, what do you need? What do I need to feel? Not feel? Or do in order to show up as my most badass powerful self today. And anything may come up, there's no wrong answers to this. The whole idea is that we're practicing this permission muscle that says it's Oh K, it's okay to say, You know what, I did it again. I filled my calendar from 7am to 7pm. There's no way I can make it through all of this. What is the thing I can delegate? What is the thing I can say no to or maybe you look out, I give myself you know, permission to take an hour and go for a walk outside and just be in nature. Because I know that's something that revives me, I give myself an hour I give myself permission to prioritize play today. Because I know I have all these big thoughts that are percolating unless I pull myself away from my computer, those big ideas are never going to happen. Whatever it is, those are some that just spontaneously came to mind. But it could be super granular, you could wake up there days, I wake up and I'm like, I'm exhausted. I didn't sleep well. Last night, I'm having a hard time focusing. I know, I'm not going to show up my best. I've canceled some of these podcasts conversations. Because I thought if I can't show up as my most powerful badass self, then doesn't make any sense. Right? So that's a fun one for me that says, hey, as women especially, let's give ourselves more permission, and let's put ourselves like we are so often at the bottom of our own to do list. Stop. Pleasure and play are not earned, they are deserved. They should be at the top of our list because they're the thing that energizes us to do everything else in our lives for ourselves, for our families, for our partners for our teams that work. So yeah, that's my very passionate spiel on that. This is an area that totally likes.

Christine Li  29:27  
I really like the orange permission slip idea. I'm going to tuck that away. I'm sure we're going to start using that as well. And I want to encourage our listeners to try something if it's not the orange for you do something that changes your routine a bit so that you feel a different vibration, you feel like you're getting stronger. You feel like you're taking a little more time for yourself and you can build on that day after day after day as Shelley has and get that strength and get that that shot Les is talking about and I really love what you said earlier in this episode where success is full is that full feeling and really just yeah, when we're just focusing on work alone, we can feel like it's not enough. And it's not really that fulfillment vibe, as we know it. And I like how you talk about your soul knowing what's really at all times those nightmares, those illnesses, those nudges, those accidental things that really just seemed not so accidental. So,

Shelley Paxton  30:38  
because they're not, there are no coincidences,

Christine Li  30:41  
right or not, they're not. So thank you for putting all of this into a framework for bringing your energy and your personal story into this. I'm really admiring what you've done. And I would love for you to just share with us more about the book, and then how our listeners can get into your world and the sabbatical healing system. Could you please describe that too?

Shelley Paxton  31:09  
Yeah, of course. So let me start with the book. So the book I've sprinkled a little bit about the book throughout this conversation, I would describe it as part memoir, part manifesto, part interactive guide. So yes, you are reading my stories, you're going on the wild ride. So the book is called sabbatical, a corporate rebels guide to finding your best life, if you're watching the video, it's right here behind me. And it really is my awakening, it's my realization that I was living my dad's dream, and then going on really what's a heroines journey, right? It's my hero's journey or heroines journey to you know, kind of have that dark night of the soul. And then, you know, come back and now share my experience with others, I say I'm on a mission to liberate a billion souls. And I can't do that by myself, I have no intention of doing that by myself, I would love each and every one of us to make the decision to live this way. So that we can be role models or soul models, as I like to call it so that we can show up in a different way and influence others and influence culture, especially corporate culture, but not limited to corporate culture. So so the book is really, it's almost like a workbook to you'll learn about my story and all of my insights, what I'm trying to do, and I wrote this in the the intro of the book, is to say I wrote the book that I wished would have been available when I left Harley. And I think this is always a good reason to tell your story. Write the book, you need to read anybody who's thinking about writing a book, I say, Yes, do it. We need your story in the world, right, the book that you needed to read. And so it's me putting my arm around you saying, I got you were on this journey together. Let me share insights from my journey that might save you some time and some heartache on your journey. And let me ask you some really powerful questions that served me well, that I'm hoping will serve you well, as you go on this journey to get more clear about what does the life more authentic, courageous and purposeful look like for you? And frankly, what are your non negotiable terms of success, that are not that checklist, but are really truly like what will make me feel most fulfilled? What will make me feel most alive? What will make me the bright light in this world that I know I am, and that I know the world needs in whatever work you do inside the home outside the home corporate entrepreneur doesn't matter. My story happens, my personal story was me coming out the corporate world. But this journey is universal. And so that's largely what it is. I'm evolving it. I've just started working on book number two, which is all about this concept of what does it really mean to live successful? And what are other examples of people who are doing it for themselves doing it in their companies influencing culture, what can we learn from them, and then it's kind of my messy story of trying to figure it out in between. So I'm also doing a lot more speaking and work around this idea of successful which is a it's a beautiful build on sabbatical. Kind of the story started there and I'm pulling the threads through. So if you want to come into my world right now, go to sabbatical.com. I will you'll find just sort of what's going on in my world by podcast rebels souls. You'll find out more about the book and more about my story. In late May, early June, I'm launching Shelly paxton.com, which is going to have a whole lot more and some new programs. like Soul circle. So I'm going to be taking small groups of women on this journey with me. And we do this together to rewrite your script of success, whatever that looks like for you. So there's some really cool stuff that's coming up. And if you are in a company or you know, you have your favorite conference or women's group, and you're looking for speakers reach out to me, this is some one of the things that I do a lot. And that truly lights me up. I love speaking to an audience, and helping everybody you know, at least catalyze the initial part of the journey.

Christine Li  35:36  
Yes, this is absolutely something that is very relatable, I think. I think it's very universal, as you have said that everyone has a journey that they're on. And everyone has kind of decision points and stress points, illness points. Yeah, are kind of marking the way and I love that. You talk about the masculine and the feminine, I'm assuming also, yeah, different ways of really approaching our life's work, and different ways of fulfilling your journey, that it doesn't have to look like the corporate route all the time. And it doesn't have to look any Yeah, but that we'd have to do that investigation for ourselves for to actually feel like we have some say and alignment and joy in the effort. Yeah,

Shelley Paxton  36:35  
exactly. Very well said. And I think it's, that's our investment, right, our investment in ourselves. I think Warren Buffett, you know, who invests zillions of dollars, that there's no greater investment than the investment itself. And I'm like, here here all day long, like I make investments in myself so that I can be showing up for my community, as well. We've all got to be in it and keep going deeper stuff is always going to be you know, coming up. So my whole goal is like, Yeah, let's go to like our growth edges together. And let's go on that journey. And so I'm excited to help more people discover what you know what successful means for them. And in the interim, I mean, if you want to find me on social media, you can find me on you know, Shelley Paxton, E y, with on LinkedIn. I'm currently at soulbbatical, soulbbatical spelled with two B's and one T on Instagram. So that's the same thing spelling for soulbbatical.com. Sign up for my newsletter come into my world you'll get first. You know, first dibs in first news about all the new stuff that I'll be launching over the next couple few months.

Christine Li  37:45  
Okay, beautiful. I'll have that all written in the show notes for

Shelley Paxton  37:49  
our awesome nerd. Yeah, by the time this airs, shelleypaxton.com, should be live. So take note, and soulbbatical.com will probably point you there anyway. But yeah, it'll be really fun. There'll be some juicy stuff to dive into. And I would I would love to continue the conversation with anyone.

Christine Li  38:06  
Terrific, thank you so much. Thanks for your time. Thanks for your wisdom. I have a funny thought about the Warren Buffett comment that you made me think as an investor, I've my little knowledge of what he does, he picks the best of the crop to invest in that's how I think that's part of his strategy. From what I have investigated, and you make me think that our best place of investment is ourself that yeah, everything else is a little riskier. And we're our own best investment. So thank you for right, really driving your point.

Shelley Paxton  38:47  
We're our own best investment. And we're our own most iconic brand. Those things and once we start to think about it that way, it's super powerful. It is it is

Christine Li  38:58  
I love your marketing genius all over this conversation and all the terms that you've created. Thanks for listening. Thank you for being here. 

Thank you enjoy what you've heard. All right, listeners, thank you for being here and spending time with us. You can also visit our website maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com for past episodes, show notes and all the resources we mentioned on the show. Feel free to connect with me over on Instagram too. You can find me there under the name procrastination coach, send me a DM and let me know what your thoughts are about the episodes you've been listening to. And let me know any topics that you might like me to talk about on the show. I'd love to hear all about how you're making time for success. We'll talk to you soon

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