Want to Have More Work and Career Satisfaction? Listen to This with Dr. Nayla Bahri

Christine Li  0:01  
Welcome back to the Make Time for Success podcast. This is episode number 93. Are you struggling to feel a sense of purpose in the work that you do? Or do you feel that there may be more that you could derive from your relationship with your work? My wonderful guest today, Dr. Nayla Bahri, is here to describe the many options that you have for developing a better relationship with your work, and with yourself as a result. This area of our relationship with our work is most certainly Nayla's zone of genius and I can't wait to share her and her genius work with you. Dr. Nayla Bahri is a sought after leadership and career coach and teacher helping humans do their greatest work in the world. Nayla brings a research based heart led approach to her practice of helping professionals create a healthier, more meaningful experience of work. She believes we can all design careers and lives that delight us. She teaches at Columbia University, and CO hosts the podcast inside job. Let's go listen to my conversation with Dr. Nayla Bahri now.

Hi, I'm Dr. Christine Li, and I'm a psychologist and a procrastination coach. I've helped 1000s of people move past procrastination and overwhelm so they can begin working to their potential. In this podcast, you're going to learn a powerful strategies for getting your mind, body and energy to work together. So that you can focus on what's really important and accomplish the goals you want to achieve. When you start living within your full power, you're going to see how being productive can be easy, and how you can create success on demand. Welcome to the Make Time for Success podcast. 

Hello, dear listener, it's Dr. Christine Li. Today, I'm very, very pleased to have my new friend and colleague, Dr. Nayla Bahri, on the show we met just a few weeks ago, maybe a couple months ago. And we were at a conference hosted by the beautiful and wonderful Pamela Slim, also a guest on this show. And we were at a conference to explore different avenues and methods to deepen our network and our zone of operations for our businesses, and I had the good fortune of sitting right next to Nayla. And immediately falling in love with her and feeling connected with her. So Nayla thank you for being on the show.

Dr. Nayla Bahri  2:50  
I'm so excited to be here. And I'm so excited to spend more time with you. So thank you for having me.

Christine Li  2:55  
Yes, thank you for being here. I know that your specialty is really working with individuals and organizations around improving the work experience. Could you describe for us in more detail what you do and how this became your area? of specialty?

Dr. Nayla Bahri  3:15  
Sure, sure. So I mean, when I think about the work I do, I sometimes say I am a person who is obsessed with how we experience work, I am a person who cannot stop thinking and wanting to take a look at investigate and improve the way that we relate to work. And a stat that I share with a lot of people is that most of us most Americans that should be said, will work 90,000 hours in their lifetime. And that is an enormous number. And for some people I say that number and I see like their jaws kind of fall. And maybe I can even witness their heart sink a little bit because it just feels like oh my god, it's so much of my life. And it is I mean, it is more conscious time. And we will spend in any other single activity more time then we'll spend with our kids or our partners, or in our most favorite hobbies. And again, this is most of us will spend most of our life doing this. So my point of view on it is I can either be overwhelmed and disappointed and just tearful around that or I can think of it has an opportunity to decide how I want to work and what I want to do and who I want to do with. And that's the kind of work I like to engage with people like if we're going to work. And most of us are, then how do we do in a way that feels deeply aligned with who we need to be at this moment in time who we aspire to be that delivers excellence to whatever we're doing, and lets us set our heads down at night believing we're having impact in the world. So that's the question I think about how do we do that? And the way I do it is I teach in the classroom, I coach, I spend most of my time coaching with people one on one. I do some group coaching and I also host a podcast where I get to talk about this with my colleague, Eric Johnson. And that's been a great adventure of our own. That's what I do. I really want to spend my professional life and a lot of my outside of profession. In a life exploring this question, how do we make the most of this activity that we spend the majority of our time doing?

Christine Li  5:06  
Beautiful, a very worthwhile pursuit? I should say, your podcast is lovely as well. It's called the Inside Job Podcast. Right?

Dr. Nayla Bahri  5:15  
Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate that. You listen to it. Yes. A lot to me. Thank you. Yes,

Christine Li  5:18  
yes. I love your voice. I love your content. And I love the questions that you pose. I think you're really curious about what makes certain things run in a certain way. And what are the struggles that people have? On a day to day basis? What's getting in people's way? Can I ask Was there a specific moment or an event in your life that caused you to focus in this direction? Yeah, I'm

Dr. Nayla Bahri  5:47  
actually love that you're answering this because it's been a while are asking this because it's been a while since I've explored this. Yeah, there, I would say there was like convergence of a couple of factors. One is that I was a very long suffering doctoral student at Columbia University, I'd been in a doctoral program in Adult Learning and Leadership for more than 10 years. And I had been doing it while I worked full time, and I had at the time, two younger children. I mean, I still have two children, but they're older now. And I was really trying to wrap my head around that final phase of collecting data, constructing a study, to write the dissertation, and I had bumped into a number of barriers, and my advisor was like, Nyla, he gotta get done. Like, we got to finish this off. And she said, No, who do you have a lot of access to. And I said, you know, MBAs, I've been working in MBA education, for that time, probably 15 years. And I said, I have lots of access to either current MBAs or former MBAs like people who went to business school for a particular purpose. So people who are trying to accelerate their careers, like that's what this population really has. And she's like, let's just study those, like, figure out something. So I pause on that I have been working at Columbia Business School for most of my adult life, working with full time MBAs helping them sort out their experience the business school, from an academic perspective, from a financial perspective, from a community and social perspective, from a mental health perspective, doing all that stuff. And I would have seen over the years, so many people get exactly what they wanted from an MBA and so many people not get what they wanted. They didn't get the dream job, the marriages fell apart. Parents fell ill students fell ill, you come into an MBA program thinking like this is a launching pad for awesomeness, like everything's going to be amazing. And then for a lot of people's real life happens, you know, you don't get the internship where you have the internship, it doesn't turn into a full time offer, or you get out of business school with this amazing job, you're so delighted by and two years later, you're kind of walking back in the building, saying it didn't work out. Like either I didn't perform as well as I thought I would, or we had restructuring and I didn't survive the cuts. And I would watch all the students come back and try to overcome these disappointments. And I had always been interested in helping them through that. So what's happening is that I'm trying to finish school, I'm witnessing this pattern in my student body. And I'm facing a pretty big birthday at the time. And I was like, I got to figure out who I want to be in the second half of my professional life. So all of those things led me to create a study around layoff. How did people emerge from the experience of layoff I was doing qualitative research or having these long form interviews with people. And it was happening at a time where I was wondering for myself, what am I going to do professionally. So all of this kind of came to a moment where I spent a few months really seeped in these stories of work interruptions, and work trauma. And I thought, God, the thing that I noticed is that people who look at this experience is part of a relationship with work, rather than being identified exclusive, like I am my job, I am my career, I'm broken, because my career path is broken. The people who were able to look at it from the outside, were having different kinds of results. And I wanted to, like understand those people, I wanted to be like those people. And that became kind of the body of work that's inspired how I think about our relationship with work, how do we take practices and take time to separate ourselves from our jobs, our identity from what we do for a living, and that is like the material that developed my practice, my thinking, my writing the podcasts, like all that stuff shows up, because I had that convergence of my research, witnessing my students over all these years and my own personal career evolution take place. That's such

Christine Li  9:25  
a beautiful explanation of a very complicated set of things happening in your life. I'm so glad that it worked out, and that you've built this beautiful career around that time. And what you are observing, one of my responses is to talk about time, which is the subject that I'm obsessed about, and reflected that a lot of the people that come to me looking for help, are expressing that they don't have time they feel like they don't have the time and oftentimes it's because of the work that they are involved in that the work takes morning tonight, and there are no free moments or they're not experiencing their time as theirs to use. Could you say some words about that? And if you see that, too, yeah,

Dr. Nayla Bahri  10:17  
I mean, first of all, I know that experience, like in a painful way, I've definitely had the sense that, like, time, which I experienced, I guess in some ways through the activities I participate in, which are like partnering and mothering in my home life, and working, which is what I spend a lot of my time doing and other activities that I do right friendship, and my book club and my reading habits and cooking in my kitchen. I have often had the experience that I was like in competition with myself, that like various domains of life, were competing for Nylas attention. I know I'm not alone. I mean, I think that's why you, you have a business that a practice and so many people who lean on you. And I think it's something I see all of my clients struggle with in some domain, because I sometimes say, again, my domain is work. And I think about you and I've had this conversation before the point of entry. For me into a coaching relationship is work is the platform from which we begin to engage, exploration and insight and action planning to get something different. What I find is that most of the time, it doesn't end with work. We also are like, while we're in here, while we're like surgically exploring the things I believe must be true, that make me work too much resent my job or see myself too deeply intertwined with my job. Can we take a look at like, why never go to the doctor? Can we take a look at why I say it's important for me to travel to go see my sister, but I never do. I imagine it's the same for you, like you went you enter through thinking about time, and then you kind of looking under the hood. And you're like, oh, while we're here. Yes, you know, but it's your original point, like, what are my comments on how people experience time through work? I sometimes say like work can be like water, like it just seeps into every possible crevice and crack finds every vulnerability in the system. And I have a lot of my clients who feel like they don't manage their time well, because they don't feel satisfied by their output. They're busy. But they sometimes wonder, like, what do I have to show for it? You know, I know I responded to a lot of email, and perhaps I updated a deck or I wrote a report. But at the end of the day, do I truly believe I had impact in a way that's mine to have? No, and I think one of the things we start to unpack is what we value, what we really think about the potential of our impact in the work that we do. And what we're willing to say no to, in order to do what's sometimes the harder work like it's very satisfying. In some regards, like I'm sitting looking at a pile of crap, or there's no other word for it on my desk, right? Like, bills, I got a pain emails, I gotta send back a form I've got to send to my bank or like stuffed, it's like, it's important, it keeps the wheels in motion. But it's not the kind of work where I close my eyes at night and think, oh, my god, that was a great day, like, Wow, thank God, I did that today. But you know, if we're not careful, that's like, that's water is going to seep into every crack. And it's also going to consume all my mental energy. So this is one of the big questions I see my clients struggling with around time, which is like, where do I spend it? Do I might do I feel appreciation and gratitude for how I've spent it, do I feel the results are worth it? Do I look back on a quarter or a year or five years and think like, wow, I really moved the needle. And I think what can be very disheartening for us is when we feel like hours of our lives are gone. And we're not really sure if we did something that was special that we should have been doing? Do you find that people have difficulty

Christine Li  13:49  
stepping into the role of observer of their own life? I think

Dr. Nayla Bahri  13:55  
totally. I love that I love the use of that expression. Because

Christine Li  13:59  
I think we enter the work world, as recent graduates and recent survivors of formal education.

Dr. Nayla Bahri  14:08  
also love that language.

Christine Li  14:10  
And we're in a more passive role and we haven't yet set our identity in the workspace. So I guess we're in many ways vulnerable to the first workplace that we find ourselves in. And I think there is that structure also whether it be corporate or educational or nonprofit, that there is a structure that we have to find a place in but that can make us also feel like were subjected to the structure rather than a participating active agent with power. And maybe some of us are also used to that passive role from childhood also that maybe were weren't given the room to to really reflect, to really give voice to what we're thinking and our opinions, and that all comes to a head at the first job. So I would love to hear your thoughts on these. And

Dr. Nayla Bahri  15:12  
there's that's like a goldmine, there's like a dozen things you said in there that could probably each be an episode of a podcast, yours or mine. I think the nerves you struck when you offered that is that I do believe deeply and painfully, that we learn habits around productivity and measurement early, both through school and through early jobs that have us learn to value our time Well, early. I think that's the way I would say it. And I just, you know, we opened our kind of pre before we started recording, talking about the college process, which I'm just about, done, identifying where my first child is heading to college, and you have two kids in college. So we've just gone through this kind of milestone for our older teenagers. And I think it's like the beginning of the end when it comes to seeing ourselves as precious in a way. Because what ends up happening is that the achievement timer has been set loud and clear for my kid like she knows, like the race is about to begin. I mean, you've been in like the training labs for the last couple years. But now it really begins. And I think this is the thing that I find myself unlearning with my clients over and over again, is this like measurement of our productivity by how fast we move how focused we are? Right? I think in a way, this is where focus has a dark edge, because Sure, it makes us get a lot of things done. But I wonder if we do lose the habit of observing ourselves at work, because we're in it. We're so busy trying to get it done and that we're not paying attention to like, this is actually working for me, do I really want this? Or am I actually doing a great job that feels aligned with who I am or I just performing and producing because someone to set a standard for me, it's kind of a mess in there in the beginning, because I think there's such a race to achieve. And time feels maybe endless early on. And it feels like I measured by how many hours I pour in and how much they get out of me. And it's not just you know, your first job and not you know, my first job was at one of these big law firms. So it's like, it's a to classic, an example, where, you know, we're paid hourly, we're paid over time, there's glory, I mean, glory, and having to work through dinner, like it was like, if you I remember, Scott, it was so long ago now. But if you were on the floor on the paralegal floor, and it was clear that you were ordering dinner, because you were going to be staying for several more hours, like high five to you like you've done something, right. Because you're working longer, not only harder, you're working longer than others. And that means that you are important, you're doing a good job, it means you're being recognized and seen. And I think when we are exposed early on to that kind of metric, it like creates appetite for more, more more, have to work really hard and really long hours and be super, you know, and I can't stop it use air quotes around the word productive. And I don't even know if it feels productive from an internal measurement point of view. I think in those points of our career, we're waiting for someone else to tell us we're doing a good job. And I think that what I see happen with my clients is they've never stopped looking to the outside to be told you're doing a good job. And what ends up hurting is when they are 20 years into career, which I would say most of my clients are. They're like, wait a second, like I still feel like I'm running on this treadmill, but I don't know who set the pace wasn't me. Someone else set the pace 20 years ago, and I'm tired. And it's not just like physical fatigue. It's like existential soul fatigue. I am not doing what I'm supposed to do. So I am tired and they want a reset. And that's when someone like me comes in.

Christine Li  18:41  
And could you describe, succinctly, perhaps podcast in a bite sized way, what principles you teach to help people to make that bridge from the treadmill way of working to a more engaged and fulfilling way of working?

Dr. Nayla Bahri  19:01  
I mean, I would say I'm hoping that that comment about podcasts is not a common in my verbosity, but it might no it's not. It's not okay. I have a lot of words. My husband likes to tell me and I leave a lot of words. I usually start with this very simple question. What do you want? And I find that most people need a minute, if not several months, to answer that question. That's the simplest thing I can offer is, is when you feel pain on the inside, like an ache around work, you know, the Monday morning blues and Sunday night blues? Do you come home and eat a bag of Cheetos? Because you just can't handle it anymore? That might just be me. The simplest thing I can say is what do you want? And I'm shocked by how many people really struggle to name what they want.

Christine Li  19:46  
Yeah, thank you for that. My comment was not about your verbosity. It was out of respect for what I believe is got to be really deep, ongoing work that there are layers to be yield back. They're exploratory questions to be created and then answered, and that whole back and forth process of, let's get the courage to look at this because it's unattended, we've been working too hard. And we haven't been looking at what has been missing or needed. So that you feel well, I'm going to comment on the productivity air quotes, because I think I am someone who really is very pro productivity, because my specialty is working with people who haven't been able to produce, to potential or to their own standards. And so for me, I transferred my style of being from procrastination to, I think, healthy, vibrant productivity, where what I do immediately feeds my soul where I feel joy, when I cross something off when I submit something when I publish something. And I think I don't mean it to be toxic to anyone. But I do think it is an avenue by which people can find real joy and real satisfaction. But I would imagine that's not true for everyone that maybe some people need peace, they need escape, they need a change of job, they need a reduction of their workload, a significant reduction of their workload and stress.

Dr. Nayla Bahri  21:28  
Yeah, you know, the thing I want to respond to that you said, you said something like, you want to help them be productive in their own style. And that's what caught my attention. Because I think that's what connects what you do with what I do is like finding the self, again, the agency, the autonomy, the self directedness, in our own careers and lives. And I wonder, you know, something I'd be, I'd love to know from you is like, when you've done what we've done, which is gone on our own, and created our own way of sharing the work that we do in the world, we get a lot of my own right, a lot of like, this is what I like to say yes to this is what I don't want to say yes to. This is how I define productive for myself, these are the days where I'm willing to drill in and give it eight or 10 hours. These are the days where I'm telling myself, it's a three hour cap, what's the most important thing to get done today? How do you guide people to thinking about classic productivity in a place where they don't have as much independence or agency or it's something like, you know, job in an organization, or you are in someone's team and they're setting the pace?

Christine Li  22:32  
That's a great question, I think my style of teaching is very much overlapping with yours, we go to values, you know, what are your values, what makes you happy, and to make sure you're getting that at some point during the day, whether it's at work or at home, in the morning routine, or in just the breathing or the relaxation, that you might be able to get in between job projects. And also, just really a respect for actual time clock time, because I think people who lean towards using procrastination a little too much, tend to have an over flow of emotions and emotional stress and anxiety in the productivity space. So I like to help people tease out what is a fear story that they're telling themselves about, they're afraid of the work. So that's one of the things that we have to address head on. Because it's not great to be afraid of your own work, to be afraid of judgment, to be afraid of the deadline, to be afraid of the frustration of having to work and concentrate and focus. And once we clear that away, it tends to be the work and how much time will it take it. So it's relatively clear in comparison to the procrastination, entanglement of time, worry, running out of time, increased worry, decreased self care, and then lowered self esteem. That's a bad bubble to be in. And I try to help people see that it's not an everlasting state, it's not part of your character. It's not even a habit that needs to be kept. It's just easily changeable. So that's my strategy.

Dr. Nayla Bahri  24:22  
I love that. I love that. Also, you said something about, like the difference between real time and what I guess I'll call like perceived time, like one of the things that shows up for me a lot with clients who want to think about having a healthy relationship with work is this perception that they don't have work life balance or integration, whatever, they pick your your language around that. But that work dominates right. And I'm often curious with people like Is it real, that there are things that matter to you? When we look at your values we look at you know, we use this tool, the wheel of life to help you identify the other domains of your life that are important. Is it real that you don't have time for them? or that you perceive you don't have time for them because those are not always the same thing. And that's really interesting to me. Also, I, you know that I have a daughter with ADHD. And one of the things that characterizes her ADHD is this thing called they call time blindness. It's kind of a defect in her executive function where she, you know, she can sit and work, she does art so she can sit and work and her body doesn't have the natural mechanisms to know that I've been sitting here for about half an hour, or I've been sitting here for two and a half hours, her ability to discern that is just not available yet. And so we have you really had to think about in our house, we worked with the tutor years ago on this like seeing time, like putting analog clocks around and making lists and strategies and tactics to say, Okay, I'm doing this for 20 minutes, I'm doing this for 40 minutes. We've all done it, even though technically, she's the only one who suffers from time blindness. But wow, is it different to realize how time actually passes versus how we feel about time passing, right, if we're doing a task that we are afraid of, and we don't like versus something we really do, like,

Christine Li  26:01  
something that I use for myself, and I don't necessarily have other people do is that I just say to myself, because I tend to be a slower paced worker that I just need to 3x might pace. And that helps, that doesn't always bring stress, sometimes it might cause a little bit of stress. But generally, it just saves me gobs of time, that I can use in more fun ways. If I'm not having to like the work that I'm doing, I just know, like, I can just push the speed, get more productivity, per time period. And then feel like I've got freedom the rest of the day. So there are lots of different things that we can do. And it really is individual. I love that based, right, your daughter is gonna have different things, and I have so

Dr. Nayla Bahri  26:49  
and I also just I think there's, it's lovely, it's just a another connection between what you do what I do, which is like, I think clients probably come to you as they do to me saying just can you just tell me what to do? And I'm like, it depends, like, there's probably I'm going to offer you a set of ideas, a set of good questions is that a tools, and you're gonna have to select the ones try things out, be willing to fail. And you'll end up designing a suite of support systems and tools and ideas that work for you. And I'm sure that's true. And what you do, too, it's like, I wish I could say like, take this quiz and follow this recipe, and it's super easy.

Christine Li  27:25  
The good news, I think, is that when people feel stuck, and they feel like there's some emptiness or something that's a barrier, it's quite easy to get the positive energy and the positive feelings to come in. Again, I think that's what they're craving. I think that's what that's my theory that we all are craving a good feeling, and especially about our work, something that we care about, and spend so much time in and something that is so associated with our identity, oftentimes our adult identity, it's it's so important. So yeah, our work is definitely overlapping. I have another question. And that is around the water concept of work. Because with COVID entry into our lives and consciousness, one article that I read that I thought was really hitting the nail on the head, described how everything changed. But the thing that we were forced to accept was that work was now in our homes. And I'm wondering if your work was affected by that and what you've observed, kind of on a broader basis in your clients?

Dr. Nayla Bahri  28:41  
Yeah, I mean, certainly, my work has been impacted. Like I, you know, in the last part, prior to launching my own business, I worked in an organization where I worked from home a couple of days a week. So I had some experience working out of my home, but not like this. Certainly, I'm aware that if I'm not tending to myself, I will be on my laptop all the time. You know, I'll take a break to cook dinner, hang out with my kids little bit. But if we're doing homework, or we're watching TV, like I'll notice suddenly, my laptops in front of me like how that happened. It just all of a sudden, I'm like dealing with stuff. And every single one of my clients is dealing with it. And I don't know anyone who I think didn't translate their community hours into being more working hours. I'm not sure I know the person who was like, actually, instead of commuting, I went to the gym for an additional hour. Like I don't know that person. I think in the beginning, it felt like a way of survival. It masked and gave us somewhere to put all of our anxiety like I'm just going to work because I don't think about how the world seems to be on fire. And I think expectations rose organizationally from managers, from teams that like well your home so I should be able to reach you like I can't be that hard to get you to log on for five minutes. Right. So I don't know anyone has not been impacted by this. I think when we start thinking about the solutions, I think about how do we create boundaries that are less porous. And most of that comes through activity and habits. I don't know if that's something we think our way through, I think is something we do. You know, for me, it might mean, my home office, it happens to be in our basement. So there are many days where I just don't take the laptop upstairs. I just don't do it. And I have to tell you, I feel the pain, like I feel that like, Oh, my God, I'm letting something go. And I'd have to, like, experience that feeling and look at it and be like, I don't have to believe that just because I'm having that thought. But for a lot of my clients, it's that kind of stuff. Like, what can we do this week to replace the time that you might spend doing an extra hour hour and a half with work with something else that satisfies a different appetite. So that might be time with the kids, it might be walk with a neighbor, it might be going to the gym or reading a book for that matter. But I think it's easier when we aren't just telling ourselves what we can't have, which is that our with the laptop, but what we get to have instead and I guess that goes to your point about feel like we're chasing the good, right? We're seeking the good as Rick Hansen was set, which I believe in very much. So I like to say to my clients, not just What won't you do, but what will you do that will put some balance, some integration back into your day some boundary around these laptops of ours.

Christine Li  31:09  
I love this. So thank you for being the heart of working, I think you really see work for the powerful zone that it represents in each of our lives. But also you really respected the self, who is trying to make their way through that zone. So it's not painful, so that it's not a struggle, and so that it's meaningful, I think you do beautiful work. I think you articulate your beliefs and your curiosity so beautifully so that people are affected. And so thank you. Thank you. Thank you for your work.

Dr. Nayla Bahri  31:48  
I mean, that's so generous. Thank you so much. I really appreciate and I appreciate your work so much. And I'm so excited to see what the future brings to our partnership.

Christine Li  31:56  
Yes, me too. So look out world, we are coming. That's right. Nayla, please let us know how our listeners can stay in touch with you and potentially work with you.

Dr. Nayla Bahri  32:07  
Beautiful. My website is just my name NaylaBahri.com. That's NaylaBahri.com. I'm really active on LinkedIn. So that's where you can get the best sense of how I think as well as my podcast, which I co host again with my friend and partner, Eric Johnson. It's called Inside Job, the podcast. We're all over the place. We're really active on Instagram and on LinkedIn. We'd love to hear from people. So thank you for giving us that opportunity.

Christine Li  32:33  
Yeah, please share your thoughts about this episode and Nayla's work with a DM to Nayla on Instagram. That would be fantastic. Please share this episode with your friends and your colleagues. If you loved it, too, I would love that as well. Thank you Nayla so much for your time, and your work. And listeners. Thank you for your time too. I appreciate you being here and you're giving the time to the Make Time for Success podcast. Have a great week. I'll see you next Thursday. 

Thank you for listening to this episode of the Make Time forSsuccess podcast. If you enjoyed what you've heard, you can subscribe to make sure you get notified of upcoming episodes. You can also visit our website maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com for past episodes, show notes and all the resources we mentioned on the show. Feel free to connect with me over on Instagram too. You can find me there under the name procrastination coach. Send me a DM and let me know what your thoughts are about the episodes you've been listening to. And let me know any topics that you might like me to talk about on the show. I'd love to hear all about how you're making time for success. We'll talk to you soon

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