Wellness from Within: A Holistic Perspective on Infertility with Dr. Katie Rose

Dr. Christine Li [00:00:01]:
Welcome back to the Make Time For Success podcast. This is episode number 178. Today, I had the great pleasure of speaking with my special guest, Dr. Katie Rose. And I have to tell you, I learned so much from this conversation and this interview and the lovely Katie. She is a licensed naturopathic physician and fertility coach who has helped 100's to overcome infertility. Her unique three step method to support the body, mind and spirit has allowed her clients to conceive despite years of unexplained infertility, failed IVF treatments, PCOS, Hashimoto's, endometriosis and recurrent pregnancy losses. In this episode, you're gonna hear us discuss lots of different topics that you would not think were directly related to the process of conceiving a child, things like perfectionism and nervous system regulation. And I have to say, Katie is a wonderful guide in understanding the mystical, miraculous process of becoming pregnant.

Dr. Christine Li [00:01:13]:
Let's go listen to her now.

Dr. Christine Li [00:01:18]:
Hi. I'm doctor Christine Li, and I'm a psychologist and a procrastination coach. I've helped thousands of people move past procrastination and overwhelm so they could begin working to their potential. In this podcast, you're going to learn powerful strategies for getting your mind, body, and energy to work together so that you can focus on what's really important and accomplish the goals you want to achieve. When you start living within your full power,

Dr. Christine Li [00:01:49]:
you're going

Dr. Christine Li [00:01:49]:
to see how being productive can be easy and how you can create success on demand. Welcome to the make time for success podcast.

Dr. Christine Li [00:02:03]:
Hello, my friends. It is Dr. Li. And today, I am joined by Dr. Katie Rose. And she and I are beginning to get to know each other. I'm so excited to do this live with her on the podcast so that you can meet her as well. Katie is a licensed naturopathic doctor and fertility coach. And so I'm really excited to learn from her about all the things that she teaches her clients and works with her clients on, and everything that she knows about practices like getting to know yourself and your intuition in the process of helping you to conceive. So Katie Rose, welcome to the show.

Dr. Katie Rose [00:02:48]:
Thank you so much, Dr. Li. I'm so honored to be here. I've gotten a lot out of your podcast over the years as a recovering perfectionist and procrastinator. You have unwittingly already started helping my clients over the years.

Dr. Christine Li [00:03:02]:
Oh, well, thank you so much for that. I know you were a listener. I didn't know it was for many years. I'm I'm so thrilled to hear that, and thank you so much for using all of this for your clients as well. I do feel it helps to open people up, so that can't hurt.

Dr. Katie Rose [00:03:18]:
And for opening me up too. It allowing me to, like, put myself out there so that I can help more people. That's been a big part of it too.

Dr. Christine Li [00:03:25]:
Oh, wonderful. Now I just need to let Adi know that I have 2 dogs in the room, and there is a fly in the room. So we're practice mindful concentration. My apologies, Katie. Katie, why don't we start with that piece that you just kindly opened up for us about perfectionism and what that was like for you and how that fit in into your story?

Dr. Katie Rose [00:03:49]:
Oh, boy. Perfectionism, and I go way back. And I know now that perfectionism was a coping mechanism for me. And I can see how in many ways it served me in helping me, you know, get to medical school because I wanted this resume that looked really nice for that getting into grad school. But I also see where it held me back and where I used perfectionism as a way of avoiding doing certain things. You know, using perfection as a way of avoiding getting in my master class out there because there was a, you know, a subconscious fear that like, oh my gosh, people are gonna see me. People are gonna judge me. And so I used that as, a block for a long time.

Dr. Katie Rose [00:04:39]:
And with the high achieving clients that I work with, perfectionism is often a part of their world. And with fertility, you know, it's unfortunately something that we don't have a lot of control over. And I see this parallel between people who are perfectionists. You know, they use that as a way of controlling something and they're used to doing the work and getting the, a plus doing the work and getting the result. So when they come to me with this situation of, you know, having tried to conceive for years, feeling like they've done all the things and nothing is working, it has them feeling so doubtful of themselves.

Dr. Christine Li [00:05:25]:
I would imagine that would be the case because there is such a lack of control. It really isn't within our control. And I'm wondering, you're making me curious about the high achievement part of it. Were you purposely attracting women who were high achievers or you just noticed that every single or many of the clients who were coming through your door were of this type?

Dr. Katie Rose [00:05:54]:
Well, I initially just noticed that, like, oh, this is a pattern, and whether that it's more likely that people who really like having control tend to struggle more with fertility or that I just attract them. I wasn't quite sure initially. I've been doing this for over 10 years, but I do believe that like kind of attracts like in this scenario, and it takes one to know one. So I think people feel comfortable with me because they're like, well, she's kinda been through this. She gets this. She's a perfectionist too. She understands what I'm going through here. And I do know how to talk to these people, and they do know how to help them regulate their nervous system and, you know, connect with their intuition instead of looking outward and doing all the things that someone else is telling them.

Dr. Katie Rose [00:06:45]:
Like, oh, well, my sister did this and my friend down the street did that, and my neighbor did this. And like all the things that someone else is doing to get pregnant. It's like you start to pile those on. You end up with this pretty extensive checklist. And when you're trying to do all of that perfectly, it will eventually lead to burnout.

Dr. Christine Li [00:07:05]:
Wow. I am overwhelmed by the number of directions I could take this conversation with you because, again, forgive me for maybe the fly in the road kind of as a metaphor because I feel my attention is going all the different ways. I'm just going to go with it. I would like to know how the functional medicine piece and you connected. So how did you choose functional medicine? And if you wouldn't mind explaining what that is to our audience because I'm sure not everyone knows what that means.

Dr. Katie Rose [00:07:37]:
Yeah. Absolutely. So it's essentially a philosophy of medicine in which we are looking at the whole person. And instead of just taking one system and going like, oh, well, there's something going on the reproductive tract. It must be a uterus or an ovary issue. We understand that all systems are connected. And so when it comes to the reproductive organs and how they're behaving, we know there's a connection to the thyroid hormone and the adrenals and how insulin is produced and blood sugar is regulated and how systemic inflammation and the microbiome and all these other features within the body and our mental, emotional, and spiritual connections will be also impacting this system as well. So everything is interconnected.

Dr. Christine Li [00:08:23]:
That's a beautiful description. And I'm wondering what drew you to that practice?

Dr. Katie Rose [00:08:30]:
Initially, it was when I was in college and I was gearing up for applying to medical schools. I had just taken my MCAT. I was burning the candle at both ends. I was taking as many credits as you were allowed to take as many honors classes as you were allowed to take. I was working. I was volunteering in the physiology lab. I was taking care of my grandmother a couple days a week, and then I would party hard on the weekends.

Dr. Christine Li [00:08:58]:
I'm glad to hear that. Oh, yeah. The partying part. I'm glad to hear that.

Dr. Katie Rose [00:09:05]:
Yeah. Yeah. I partied. That's for sure. And my body was communicating with me. I was getting sick a lot, and it started with a sinus infection, and then I got the flu and I ended up with walking pneumonia, and then I started getting urinary tract infections. And it was to a point where I was in my doctor's office about once a month as a junior in college, and there was a joke with them, like, you might as well just have a parking spot here. You're here all the time.

Dr. Katie Rose [00:09:33]:
And there was actually another Catherine Rose in their system who was, like, 75 years old, and they would always make my chart up with hers.

Dr. Christine Li [00:09:41]:
Oh, wow. As frequent visitors. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

Dr. Katie Rose [00:09:45]:
Yes. Yes. But it was depressing. I mean, I had really come to a point where I was like, I don't know if I can keep going in life with how this is presenting. Yes. How am I supposed to get through medical school if I can barely get through a month without getting sick with something, without needing antibiotics? And a nurse at that office pulled me aside one day and said, you are too young to be going down this chronic health track. You have to go see a naturopathic doctor. All of our patients who see 1 are healthier.

Dr. Katie Rose [00:10:18]:
I don't know what that is. That sounds crazy. That and that was just not part of my world at that point. So I sat on that information for about a year before, you know, I really hit rock bottom. And when I finally went to see the person she'd recommended, it was like this whole world unlocked for me of just asking different questions, asking better questions, spending more time with me. I had actually started timing at my primary care doctor's office. The average wait time was 45 minutes, and the average time that the doctor would spend was 4 to 7. So 7 minutes looks like a long visit

Dr. Christine Li [00:10:56]:
with them.

Dr. Katie Rose [00:10:58]:
And this naturopathic doctor spent a full hour with me asking me questions about what my life looked like, what kind of food I ate, what my stresses were. Did I live in a house that had mold in it? Oh, I sure did. Like, there were just so many features that I was unaware of. And it was at that time that I just realized like, I don't think I can go to traditional medical school knowing that there's a different system out here.

Dr. Christine Li [00:11:23]:
I love this story. I'm so glad I asked these questions because there's a backstory for everything, I think. Right? There's either a backstory in your life, illness caused this or I traveled that path and that led me there, or there's a story from within us for why we have landed where we are. So I I always want to know why people are here and and how they got here. So thank you for sharing all of that, and I'm glad it worked out so beautifully for you. Me too. Yes, yes, yes. Alright.

Dr. Christine Li [00:11:55]:
So now, back to the perfectionism And I love how you described all of the different pressures of the conceiving process and all the markers that potentially that your so called, I'm in quotes because we're on video together, but so called failures of conception. And how do you bring women who come into your practice and seek help from you? How do you help them to transform their mindset and to transform their practices in terms of how they're dealing with their body and their cycles and things

Dr. Katie Rose [00:12:37]:
like that? Yeah. I think first off, it helps for people to know that they are not alone. Sometimes when we're dealing with an issue that feels invisible and there's still some stigma around, we don't realize how common it is and that 1 in 6 couples is struggling with infertility. So when people realize that their jaw usually drops and they're like, wow, really? Okay. Like I felt like I was the only one ever dealing with this. Like I'm watching my friends just pop babies out left and right. And I feel like a failure. So when they realize that they're not alone, and then when we start to explain all of the ways in which it is not their fault, that starts to help them ease up on themselves a little bit because typically, like, we are our own worst critics.

Dr. Katie Rose [00:13:25]:
Right? And when there's something like this going on, where it's like your body's not doing. You believe it was meant to do people tend to blame themselves. So just being able to say like this isn't your fault. Yes. There are some things that we can do here differently to influence this, but it's not your fault. And then giving them tools, giving them resourcing to process emotions, to get in touch with their intuition, to truly understand understand when stress is impacting them because I think our culture normalizes stress, and so some of these people come in being like, I'm not stressed.

Dr. Christine Li [00:14:07]:
Yeah. So important. This is so important. And, you are also having me think that perfectionism, it's kind of a grab for something external to almost calm the internal. And that it's a cycle that doesn't really work. It doesn't really ever satisfy that need to truly be calm. And I think that's why it's so painful when any of us are are engaging in that, and we can do it sometimes, we can do it all the time. And of course, sometimes we can just decide we're giving that up, and it's no longer a useful tool for us because it's causing our nervous system to be very erratic.

Dr. Christine Li [00:14:52]:
Now I think in preparing for our conversation, I did read your explanation about how you do work with the nervous system. And I don't think I've ever myself linked nervous system regulation with conceiving and getting pregnant. So could you describe how you came to know about that and the meaning of that for you and, again, how you teach your clients about it?

Dr. Katie Rose [00:15:20]:
Yeah. It took me a while. I regret to say I've been in practice for 10 years, and I would say it was maybe around the 4 year mark that I was like, oh, dang. We need to be looking at this differently. Because, again, we even if we're putting emphasis on functional medicine and, like, understanding connections between, like, inflammation and the microbiome, there still is a lack of conversation even within functional medicine around, like, the mental, emotional, and spiritual state, and ultimately creating safety in the mind and body is what I have found to be what increases our chances of conception the most. And so we have to know, like, what is this individual's need for safety, and what does that mean for them? But the nervous system is so important because our brain, a central nervous system, the brain, the spinal cord, our brain is what houses the hypothalamus and the hypothalamus produces our master hormones for regulating the menstrual cycle and so many other things. We have the hypothalamus. It's communicating with the pituitary.

Dr. Katie Rose [00:16:27]:
The pituitary is sending out the FSH, the LH. These are communicating directly with the ovaries. And when we are in a state of stress, whether it's acute or chronic stress, and we have this feedback that occurs, and that can actually down regulate some of the hormones that are involved in reproduction. It can draw blood flow away from the digestive tract and the reproductive tract. And so that fight or flight mode that we think of when we're stressed doesn't doesn't always translate into someone acknowledging that they're stressed. Again, like, stress is very normalized in our culture, so people will often feel like, I don't know. I'm not stressed. I've got my stress under control.

Dr. Katie Rose [00:17:14]:
Like, okay. Well, we have different questions that we might ask. We have different tests that we might run. Doesn't even have to mean it's a blood test, right? Like there are ways of measuring how your body is being impacted by stress, like, CO2 tolerance and flexibility. And this helps us better understand, like, how is this person actually being impacted by stress? What is their nervous system's role in this, and how can we help them feel safe?

Dr. Christine Li [00:17:40]:
I love this so much. Thank you, Katie. I don't oftentimes act like this in interviews, so I think you know and and what my regular listeners will know. I am so excited by this conversation because it's a new way of understanding. For me, it is. It's new. When you said it was the 4 year mark that you realized this, was it just the culmination of all of that work that you noticed this is the key or this is something that we really need to help people understand and get connected with?

Dr. Katie Rose [00:18:13]:
That's a good question. There was a culmination. I had also become a parent around that time. So I had my first child, thank you, at about 3 years into practice. And so I saw directly, like, how, you know, that infant's nervous system is fully relying on me being regulated, and that was very eye opening. And realizing, like, how I'm not sure if you've heard the term, like, conscious conception, but this idea of being very aware, self aware of your own traumas and shortcomings and making that decision that, like, this ends with me And with the intention that I am making being a healthier individual in mind and body, I can create, you know, a healthier environment for this new life to come in. And that, like, that just cracked me open. You know, becoming a parent and realizing, like, my gosh.

Dr. Katie Rose [00:19:15]:
We're really missing a huge piece of this. And so it also led me to integrating more practices like emotional freedom technique, referring people to counseling sooner than I may have previously, and then eventually, becoming certified in hypnosis and quantum time technique and, you know, these strategies to help people remove these subconscious limitations that may have been created just through, you know, their childhood conditioning or even, like, from generational conditioning that they weren't aware of.

Dr. Christine Li [00:19:53]:
Wow. And

Dr. Katie Rose [00:19:54]:
seeing how that accelerated results or, like, for people who'd been trying to conceive for 10 years and everything looked, quote, unquote, normal on their labs and their imaging, but, like, they've just they've never had that positive pregnancy test. When we start to ask questions differently, we can often find something within their history, within their limiting beliefs, within this story that they've created about it that we can rewire.

Dr. Christine Li [00:20:22]:
Yes. I I had not heard of conscious conception, just to let you know that because I wasn't able to to fit that in as you were talking. And that sounds really beautiful that there are frameworks that people can wrap their mind around so that they can work with their bodies after kind of addressing what's going on with their mind and with intergenerational issues and what's being passed down and limiting beliefs. All of this is so powerful. Now let's talk about mindset and intuition. And if you could just say a little bit more about that piece, and maybe how that extra training that you did also then informed your practice.

Dr. Katie Rose [00:21:11]:
Sure. So with mindset, if we were to simplify it down with someone struggling with fertility, it's like, what are you thinking about yourself? What are you thinking about this journey? What are the predominant conversations that you're having within your own mind about it? So saying things like, gosh, maybe this isn't meant for me. Maybe I'm broken. What's wrong with me? Like asking very judgmental questions of ourselves and again, being our own worst critics And wondering, you know, what's wrong with me. Maybe I'm not worthy of being a mother. Maybe this is punishment for something that I did that one comes up and being able to ask different questions and getting curious instead of judgmental tends to really shift people's mindset. So I have come to realize that, like, I'm pretty good at helping people reframe things. And even with a client earlier today, for example, like, she's had some irregular cycles in the past, and this cycle looked a little bit better, but wasn't quote unquote perfect.

Dr. Katie Rose [00:22:22]:
But she said, but you know what? Then I started thinking about it. And instead of being like, oh, why did did I have spotting that one day? I went, wow. I ovulated. That's great, body. Good job.

Dr. Christine Li [00:22:34]:
Yeah.

Dr. Katie Rose [00:22:35]:
And so just being able to reframe, like, what is going well and for the things that maybe do need support differently, being able to ask different questions instead of what's wrong with me being able to say, hey, what is my body communicating? How can I learn from this? How can I nourish myself better this month?

Dr. Christine Li [00:22:57]:
Beautiful. That's that's for wellness period. Right?

Dr. Katie Rose [00:23:01]:
There absolutely. This is for being human in this world.

Dr. Christine Li [00:23:04]:
Yes. Yes. I'm gonna ask you one more question, which is I'm reflecting about my own just excitement, and I feel very stimulated by this conversation and excited. And I'm wondering, do you need to take extra good care of yourself because you're doing this work? That's just it's it's a little tangential, but I am curious what what you might need to do and and what you do do if you do anything extra.

Dr. Katie Rose [00:23:32]:
Yes. I do need to take extra good care of myself. I really have no tolerance for BS. Drama, gossip, these just cannot like, I I don't allow them in my vicinity. And so I'm really careful about what I surround myself with and who I surround myself with and my boundaries around, like, it it would be easy to over schedule myself. Like, there are millions of people who are struggling with this, and I have to know when I need a cap on my schedule so that I can get 3 meals a day and drink enough water and be in the sunshine for a certain amount of time and take walks. And my dog's laying down by me, spend my quality time with my dog and my kids. Like, there's a lot that I do need to be aware of in my own life because I do get very passionate about this and I wanna help help so many people, but I also know that when we are going deep, I need to be in my own healthy mindset of being able to take care of other people and hold space as a facilitator of this work and, you know, be extremely regulated myself so that other people feel safe to bring things to the surface that need better care.

Dr. Christine Li [00:24:57]:
I love this, and I love, by the way, that you add boundaries as a great way of taking care of yourself. Right? Yeah. And I think it's I don't know that people oftentimes mention that, but it's so important to be in charge of that energy. Your energy, your schedule, who has access to you, who you're interacting with, so important. Katie Rose, thank you so much for being the expert and beautiful person and practitioner that you are. Thank you for helping 100, if not 1000. I'm sure we're getting there too, in terms of numbers of, women and couples to create and to know themselves better. And I'm just so proud to know you and so glad that I had you on this show.

Dr. Christine Li [00:25:44]:
And I look forward to seeing you soon. We will be meeting again in a few months at another conference, and I am really looking forward to connecting with you more Me too. There. So before we end, could you please describe how to stay in touch with you, and I will provide our listeners with that link.

Dr. Katie Rose [00:26:06]:
Yep. Absolutely. From a social standpoint, I am most often found on Instagram, so you can always send me a DM there and keep an eye out for my podcast launching soon, the brilliant fertility podcast. And you can always email us at info at brilliant fertility dot com to get more information about working together. So thank you so much for having me. It's been a delight, to meet someone who I've learned so much from.

Dr. Christine Li [00:26:36]:
The pleasure is shared, and totally, I I'm so excited for our listeners to to know the work that you do and to have learned from you. And thank you for letting me ask all of these questions. On Instagram, can you provide your handle just to make sure that people Yep. Do stay in touch with you?

Dr. Katie Rose [00:26:53]:
@drkatierose,

Dr. Christine Li [00:26:57]:
drkatierose. Alright. Terrific. You know that Katie and I are wishing you all just the very best in terms of your wellness. Keep your boundaries. Get in touch with what creates safety and that feeling of calm inside yourself, it's gonna be worth your time and your energy. Thank you again, Katie.

Dr. Katie Rose [00:27:16]:
Thank you.

Dr. Christine Li [00:27:19]:
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Make Time For Success podcast. If you enjoyed what you heard, you can subscribe to make sure you get notified of upcoming episodes. You can also visit our website, maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com for past episodes, show notes, and all the resources we mentioned on the show. Feel free to connect with me over on Instagram the to. And let me know any topics that you might like me to talk about on the show. I'd love to hear all about how you're making time for success. Talk to you soon.