What You Can Do to Develop Your Voice, Message, and Confidence with Rob Lawrence

Christine Li  0:01  
Welcome to the Make Time for Success Podcast. I'm Dr. Christine Li and this is episode number 101. 

I've got some super fun news to share with you today before I introduce our next special guest, if you're buying a newsstand and it's the winter of 2022, I'm gonna ask that you search for Oprah's magazine, the favorite things addition, as there's an article in it called there's a coach for that. And the surprise news is that yours truly Dr. Christine Li, is a featured coach inside that fun article. The article was a breeze to participate in. And I'm happy to say that but upon reflection, I've been thinking that it's taken me years of preparation to have that article feel like a breeze. I've prepared by working on my communication, my messaging, how I show up my confidence level, all of those things. 

And that is my segue into introducing our special guest today. His name is Rob Lawrence. He is a coach, author and podcast mentor, who helps coaches like me, and creative entrepreneurs and business leaders reach 1000s of listeners every day through the power of their own voice and message and the power of podcasting. He is behind the scenes on many shows and occasionally hosts the Odd Series. And his own podcast, Inspirational Creatives, features lots of conversations with amazing artists, producers, coaches and entrepreneurs who offer stories and strategies to help you create the life and living you want. Rob is the kind of mentor and colleague that you want on your side when you're on your own journey to taking your message to the world. Listen in to this episode to get inspired to share your own voice and your own creative genius with the world. Let's go listen to the episode now.

Hi, I'm Dr. Christine Li, and I'm a psychologist and a procrastination coach. I've helped 1000s of people move past procrastination and overwhelm so they can begin working to their potential. In this podcast, you're going to learn about powerful strategies for getting your mind, body and energy to work together so that you can focus on what's really important and accomplish the goals you want to achieve. When you start living within your full power, you're going to see how being productive can be easy, and how you can create success on demand. 

Welcome to the Make Time for Success podcast. Hello, my dear listeners. This is Dr. Christine Li and today, I'm feeling really calm, despite some recent tech issues. And I want to thank Rob Lawrence, my guest today for being patient as I sorted all of those out. Rob and I know each other from a ways back when I was on his podcast, Inspirational Creatives. And I just love this man. I love his work. I love his thoughtfulness, his kindness to be has just carried me through the years of podcasting and being a pre podcaster and a current podcast host. So Thank you Rob for that and welcome to the show.

Rob Lawrence  3:24  
Christine, it's an absolute pleasure. lovely to be here.

Christine Li  3:28  
So Rob is many things. He's a creative, he's an author. He's a coach. He's a podcast mentor. And he's been a very busy man who works at really thoroughly. Like I said earlier, his podcast episode with me, reflected just his care for his craft. Each episode is really detailed. He intersperses his commentary with the guests, work and reflections, and it just creates such a nice atmosphere for people. But I want you all to get to know Rob and his backstory, too. So Rob, could you let us know how you got to be who you are today? And what lights you up?

Rob Lawrence  4:16  
Well, what lights me up is doing this and connecting, you know, with you, Christine, and it's certainly in this digital day and age that we live in now sort of post pandemic where most of us with very few exceptions, we're forced to connect with each other, not in person, but online. And as much as I enjoy the and I still do to this day, nothing beats proper human interaction where you're actually together with somebody sharing space in a room. But the next best thing can be this wonderful opportunity to be able to connect with people across the world across time zones in this way to share ideas and I think one of the wonderful Things that this age has brought us in my lifetime is the ability to connect almost instantaneously with somebody across the planet. Somebody who perhaps cares about the same thing that we do or thinks about something that we care about. And what that has begun to bring into my life over the last few years is a tremendous diversity in terms of thinking in terms of cultural values, stories, ideas. And that is very exciting to me. And it really does. To your point there about, you know, what makes me jump out of bed every morning is this curiosity of who am I going to meet today? And what am I going to learn today? And I hope also, what value can I give today, in terms of how can I help somebody today, and I've learned recently that my style of motivation, I'm highly motivated, when I can experience and see the results of the work that I do. I have to say that, though, part of my motivation today accepts the fact that you don't see a lot of the ripple effect of what you do, particularly with podcasting, you might see some numbers on a screen that suggests your episodes been downloaded many times. And that, again, kind of inspires my curiosity to wonder where, where in the world those downloads have gone, and who that conversation might have inspired. But I get glimpses of it. And it's those glimpses that keep me highly motivated. Because really, on the odd occasion, where I do see the results of the work that I do through podcasts and podcasts in working with others, I just multiply that, you know, just think, well, just seeing that small thing there for me, is enough to keep me going and motivated to keep doing what I'm doing. But to think that actually I know is having a more multiple effects than than what I actually get to witness is highly inspiring. So

Christine Li  7:07  
that is a lovely, thank you for teaching me that. Because I don't tend to have that atmosphere in my head. I'm thinking, Oh, wow, that many downloads, sometimes. I need to adopt a more of an abundant mindset when it comes to the impact that I might be having with my show on this podcast and my work. So thank you for that. That was a lovely surprise lesson I didn't think I was gonna get I find myself curious, what is it about you as a person dropped on this planet? That makes you interested in connecting with people? What is so appealing about that? How did you recognize that? When did you first realize that?

Rob Lawrence  7:48  
So lovely question, I can't say I can answer that. And what I mean by that is, I'm still learning. And that's part of the fun I think of doing what we do is every day I learned about myself and I learned something new and I I'm not sure I'll ever reach some kind of final summary or conclusion, but it's just going to be an ongoing learning journey for me. And that in itself is highly motivating, I find but more specifically, I think I'm a very sort of feeling centered person. So you know, a lot of my energy is based around emotion. And, for me, it's hard to, you know, switch off my biases, but I audio for me is, is a format that highly resonates with who I am. And what I mean by that is, don't get me wrong. I love watching films, I love reading books, and they move me but they don't move me in the same way that audio does. Both music, even just walking in nature, but on that sort of thing, and listening to podcasts. But what it is that particularly moves me about listening to something like a podcast, for example, is the emotion in somebody's voice. It's not just what they're saying is how they're saying it. And for whatever reason and reasons I can't describe. You may know more, Christine, but for whatever reasons, when I when I'm deeply immersed in that experience, physiologically, I am feeling things that's an adventure in itself. And that's always been the case. I've never know my life without that. And I've got very early, very, very early recollections of when I was very young pair of headphones on either listening to music or the radio. And that just moving me or taking me to a place that I you know, wouldn't experience anywhere else. And it's the power of that that movement, that sort of magnitude of that experience, which is what has drawn me back to the audio space because there It was a period of my life where I was far away from that with a corporate career. And I realized, actually, I was becoming quite miserable. And that was why I've since learned that I'd lost that connection with audio in a deep way anyway. And I now know that about me that actually it has to be quite central to my life as a coach, and also as a Podcast Producer. And, and, and outside of that work, too, in my personal life as well. It's a very sort of central thing. So sound is always with me, it's a realm that I love to be in it's a mystery is a complete mystery to me. But I find that a very exciting aspects of being human.

Christine Li  10:42  
Okay, I love that you managed to answer the question I was trying to come up with, which was, was there ever a period of time when you were blocked, from connecting with what comes naturally to you and what you enjoy? So thank you for doing that. And I would say, in your work, interviewing many, many creative people for your show and your business and in your coaching career, have you noticed that people tend to align with a particular sense or a particular strong trait that they have? And that allows them to open up their creativity? What is your sense of how the creative genius gets to be put forth? Yeah,

Rob Lawrence  11:25  
I think these days, the work I do with people around the podcasting stuff, is quite deep work. So I'm often if it's not a little bit of tech support, it's usually working on their confidence, or helping them to find and shape their voice and message. And that's where a lot of people get stuck. So coming back to your point there about being stuck. I think we do know what it is, I think we can find it. But we put a lot of stuff in the way. And that's certainly what happened for me, for all sorts of different reasons that you and I have discussed on other podcasts before. So today, people tend to arrive at my doorstep or on the phone or, or via zoom, or what have you, when they're pretty clear that the audio format is their strength. And the podcast is their strength. And they've they've dabbled around, it's about podcasts or audio for them. Predominantly, they might be doing the other things, but it's the predominant channel that they want to express themselves through. In the earlier days, I was sort of sifting and sorting the different types of clients I wanted to work with. And I was finding that actually, you're absolutely right. There are different people that that work in different ways, well with different formats. And I know many writers, and without doubt, you know, poets, writers, authors, that is their predominant format, they might do a bit of podcasting. And sometimes I will work with them as well, because it's actually more is about developing their, you know, their story sometimes or, or their actual voice and approach when it actually comes to to talking on a podcast, I suppose for wonderful, better description. But yeah, people do have different strengths. And I think that one of the big things that stuck out for me, and perhaps a really valuable lesson that that I've learned over the years, and I hope many of those that I've worked with have learned as well is that actually, if we are struggling with how often for one of two reasons. So we're trying to make a video or so we're trying to make an audio piece. And if we're struggling, there's usually one or two reasons. One, it isn't our forte, that isn't our strength. And we're trying to kind of do something that just isn't actually in harmony with who we are. The other is that this, this is what we're going to do, but they're trying to do too much too soon. So this is a strength but they're trying to run before they can walk if you sort of mean so often I find myself working with people in that scenario if if they're still in that phase of discovery, and figuring out which which is the right medium for them.

Christine Li  14:05  
Yes, and I have seen that it's really difficult to, I guess be in the situation where you know, where you want to end up and arrive eventually. And then feel like you have to wait and work on the skills that you think are already ready to go to the endpoint. And I found that people don't really see myself included the parts that are still missing or still need development. And I myself went through some voice coaching with the lovely and amazing and talented Tracy Goodwin and I feel so much more confidently about my voice but I didn't even know what was up with my voice. It's something so intangible and unknowable. We can't take a picture of it. But somehow somebody had the skill to shift me out. of feeling blocked all the time to feeling incredibly open. So you do wonderful work. So thank you for being that thoughtful coach who is sensitive to where the person is on their journey to I can see that just in how you're describing your clients. What could you say, might be the biggest confidence blocks, if you could get a little more detailed about some examples or something that maybe even you have gone through?

Rob Lawrence  15:29  
Yeah, so I think to your point there, Christine, one of the big confidence blocks, for quite a few of those folks that I've worked with is this thing about hearing their own voice. Because there is an element I suppose, of review, if you're going to create a podcast you need, or you probably would want to listen back to the work that you've created, it's kind of like looking at your own drawing to sort of know what to do with it next, or to maybe make some suggestions in terms of edits or presentation. So I think for most people, they feel there's an inevitable step that they have to take, which is to review the the audio that they've recorded, but even that is quite hard for many, even some of the more, which just fascinates me really, even some of the more experienced business leaders that I work with who are fabulous keynote speakers, yet, they're, you know, nervous or frightened about listening back to their own recorded voice. And so I think that can be a block in itself. And it shows up in it in a variety of different ways sometimes. And that's that's quite curious to me as well, before we actually get to the nub and the root of that's what really is going on here. It's about listening back to yourself. And thankfully, I experienced a similar sort of version of that myself in the early days of podcasting. And so I had to kind of overcome some of my own blocks with that, which was, I've found very useful, because when people do have that as a block, I can relate with them, and I can relate to what they're experiencing and how that felt. So that's really useful to me. So I would say that's, that's one of the more predominant kind of confidence things. Other things that perhaps stop people in their tracks are things like what what to create what content. So that's always a fascinating one to me, because once I get people talking, I'm always fascinated by their story and what they know, and what they have to say, but they can't see that. And it's that classic thing of many of us most of the time, don't appreciate our own strengths, because they come so naturally to us. And what we know and our experience, and our story is sometimes even boring to us, because we may have said it many times, or we're so close to it, we can't see how it is special compared to somebody else. It's that comparison thing that we're doing there. Yeah, I'm there in awe of what people have to say. And I'm like, there's so much here. So I think sometimes there's there's a block that comes around the actual creative element, which is creating the content, you know, I don't know what content to create, I don't know what I would say or how I say it. And then when we start to go through a process of actually breaking that down and putting it together, then I think we almost experienced the opposite, which is overwhelmed. And there's just so much I could be talking about, there's so much that you know, so the then there's a lot of sort of editing and curation that sort of then takes place in terms of what's the listeners journey going to be either in in an episode or over a series of episodes, and then we try and figure out out of their story and what they know, what's going to be the best way to put all of this stuff together in an inspiring and listenable way. So that's another one. And then I think behind that, I mean, there's of course many, many others, but these are the more common ones. And other one is the tech side of things. You know, it's just about having confidence with the tech, and also just using the tech in the right way. Because there's a lot of great wisdom out there on YouTube and whatnot about how to start a podcast. And this is the mic that you should buy and all the rest of it. But actually, like so many disciplines and crafts and other things that we can do, actually is sometimes about finding the right tool for the right job. There isn't necessarily a one size fits all, which is what you'll find common wisdom about podcasting on the internet is like this is how to do it. I don't subscribe to that. I mean, there are some core principles. I agree with that. But I actually think that for most people, it is a craft. For most people there is they have their own journey, there is a way that's going to work best for them. There is a mic that's probably going to be more appropriate for them. Maybe sometimes the reason they don't like the sound of their voice is perhaps they've not got the right mic in the right room. So they're not hearing their voice in the right way. So it's emphasizing the role and relevance of their they've always so I think there's there's the tech stuff and I feel like I'm blessed when I on my own journey. I had this deviation in a corporate rare in technology, which I loved, you know, but for different reasons, for sort of 15 years, but that gave me a really, I didn't appreciate it at the time, but I certainly appreciate it. Now, that's given me a really good grounding in trying to solve technical problems. And also, this ability to be able to describe what is sometimes quite a complex technical concept, but in a really simple way, so that people can, you know, get a handle on it and be able to use it in a way that's going to be to their advantage. So I would say there the three most common stumbling blocks for for people,

Christine Li  20:38  
thank you for sharing those, I loved that list. And you make me think that maybe one thing that would help people to produce and create and be more confident, is to assume that there's a state of flow inside of them ready to go, and that they need to set the stage, the proverbial stage, and the right technology to support them. But that doesn't indicate a lack of ability. And I think that the Creator, whatever you're doing a paper music piece, a podcast episode, that the scary stuff happens when we veer into the belief that there's something wrong with us. And then we don't have any room for the creativity to flow come out, peak out start. And then we get into other types of issues, which that's my area where people then stop performing altogether, or they stay off the stage, or they develop some sort of severe block in terms of their senses functioning, literally not being able to speak, turning white on stage, these kinds of things. So thank you for that. I think the assumption there when I heard your list was that you have it in you, you just have to find the right pieces to proceed with.

Rob Lawrence  22:00  
Yeah, absolutely. I think environment is a very important aspects. And when I, when I talk about environment, I don't just mean the room that we're in, which of course, is important, but it's the psychological environment. It's this kind of mental landscape that we create for ourselves about what a podcast is, where I sit within that space and how I do it. Because again, I think that maybe some of the reason that some people don't even explore it is because they've got a concept of what it should be or how it should be done. But the reality is, you know, I always think of podcasts as a sort of wild west of audio. I mean, really, anything goes. Yeah, and I think also in this day and age, not that there are too many podcasts out there that you've got such fierce competition, it's not worth doing. But I would say there's a tremendous amount of opportunity out there. And within that opportunity, the opportunity to be different. And just to do it your way. And I think that having the confidence to your point there, Christine, about being confident about being you. And bringing your own unique flavor style and approach to it would actually benefit you greatly with a podcast because it will help you stand out from the crowd. And it will also help you to reach the people that are really looking for you or looking for people like you in the world. So I think that I've heard the phrase that audio is the most honest medium, or something along those lines. And I love that phrase for so many different reasons. For me, it's about the intimacy that it creates. And I think also, when you're listening to somebody's voice, you can really hear the emotion in there. I think it's a little bit different to video where you can get distracted by the visuals, sometimes. And maybe there's some other kind of soundtrack stuff going on as well. But I think when you're left with a conversation and a podcast, you can really, there's something that sort of goes on at a much deeper level, when you're listening to somebody, you may not even be consciously aware of it. But you're you're listening to the changes in tone and pitch and resonance and whether somebody's speaking softly or quietly. And I think this is all going on all at the same time. I also kind of feel like sort of neurologically, we kind of rewire our brain in the moment, to pay more attention when you haven't got the visual distractions again, like you do with video. And that draws us in to the emotions and what's going on for that person as they're sharing it. And I think that's that's something to be not not concerned about, but to be excited about because again, I think it does mean that if you are passionate about something, or if you believe something that your you say you care about something that's really going to come across in the audio just by speaking normally, you know, and I think there's something really special about that. So the bar isn't that as high as a lot of people think it is in terms of what do I need to do or how do I need to present myself I think it may sound almost cliche these days but genuinely being you is going to be the thing that's really going to help you a connect with the right people and be sort of stand out from the rest as well. So I think the podcast format itself lends itself very well to that. As long as you can sort of stay true to what's right for you, rather than being distracted by how podcasting should be done, so to speak.

Christine Li  25:14  
Okay, beautiful, I would back up everything that Robert has said so far, I would say not only just a recommendation to put up a podcast if you have the inclination, but also to bring your message to other people's podcasts, you don't necessarily have to host your own that may be for just a smaller portion of the population. But certainly find people who are talking about similar issues to the one that you specialize in or care about, and go reach out because people are looking for guests, people are looking for your voice, and people need to hear your voice to my next question would be about the idea of crafting your own message and having the courage to really speak with emotion? Could you give us some ideas about how you coach people on really helping them tailor what they're going to focus on? And yeah, getting them to believe that it's okay to put this material out. It's okay to show up in this way.

Rob Lawrence  26:19  
Yeah, it does take a degree of courage. I would agree with that, in the sense that, unlike building courage in any area of our life, it's done through practice. And I think, again, the the, you know, the hack here is, is lots of small amounts of practice can go a long way. In my early experience, I had this where it was just a case of getting used to being in record, because really curious thing seems to happen is we can be having a really good conversation, or I could be having a really good conversation with somebody as soon as that red light goes on. And we've got a term for it in the audio industry, which is red light fever. So once that goes on, then all of a sudden, the whole conversation changes, and everybody tightens up and all the rest of it. So what are these sorts of exercises I take a number of people that I work with that that struggle with that is just to get so used to being in record being in record all of the time. In fact, one of my mentors said, as I was learning about audio principles in audio recording was always been record. And there's a couple of reasons for that one, you get so used to being on record, you just forget you're in record. The second thing is that sometimes the gold, as you well know is off air. So if you happen to be in record, you can sometimes capture that gold as well now, obviously cost this previously and that type of thing, you know when not to be in record, and, of course, be being sensitive to that. But I think it's really a case of developing a daily practice, maybe just five minutes a day of just hitting record and talking, really doing that it sounds simple. But I think as we get used to doing that more and more and more. And to your point there, Christine, I think actually being a guest on another podcast. In all of my experience interviewing others, quite a number of those guests have, it was the first interview that they've ever done. And I'd like to think and judging from the feedback, they had an enjoyable experience. But I think sometimes just stretching ourselves that little bit, you know, not giving ourselves the pressure of having to create a whole podcast ourselves in the first instance, but maybe just seeing what that's like. And hopefully, it's a little bit easier these days for people because I think we're getting a bit used to having the cameras on in our own homes. We're getting used to the the, you know, the internet sort of friendly platforms, which when I started recording podcasts weren't available to us. So now I think, you know, this online communication, these platforms are a bit more familiar to us. And even on the Zoom calls, sometimes they're being recorded now. So we're even getting a sense and a bit of experience in terms of what it feels like to be in record. And then I think to your point there about sort of cultivating our voice and our message that then comes through a degree of curation. And actually it comes back to practice again, I think we have to be our own curators. But I think also through the process of practicing and recording. What I've definitely noticed about everyone I've worked with is that they have become better speakers. And I think it's the practice of talking about you know, as I'm doing with you today, sharing and aspects of their story over and over again, you tend to start to self curate. And I think the important point about this is, it doesn't matter if you get it wrong to begin with. It will be rough and ready in the beginning and there may be something endearing about that as well actually, you know, for many, I think a lot of listeners will enjoy that aspect, as vulnerable as you may feel. But if you can embrace that vulnerability and find the courage somehow to just express yourself and talk about your own story, and sometimes a Another exercise I offered to people is just to get a small handheld recorder and just be in record, but maybe have a short conversation with somebody that they trust. And and record that conversation, they can delete that conversation straight after they've recorded it. But again, it's just a, there's a sort of a kind of double headed opportunity there to A, B with that sensation of actually being in record. And then the other thing is actually sharing some of our own story. And actually, in the presence of somebody else, listening, just listening, can give us the experience of what it feels like to be on a podcast. And we can we can then build on that just doing more of that really,

Christine Li  30:44  
I'm just going to add a little piece that just came to me when I was hearing you suggest that exercise that I was thinking, well, people are going to have physical reactions to that, like maybe chills up the spine, or some sort of tension. And then my thought went to just embrace that just get used to that. And don't be afraid of that. That is just your body being miraculous. It's just reacting to the scene. But don't assume that that's going to be your reaction. Every time you tell your story going forward. It just happens to be how you're feeling in the moment. And that is who you are. And that's what we need. So thank you. Yeah,

Rob Lawrence  31:22  
I love that. Christine, you remind me there, I once heard that, you know, fear and excitement can feel like the same thing. But you know, our body has a similar sort of physiological response. And I still, even before this interview, and I've done hundreds, if not 1000s. Now, when I host, I still get those nerves. But I also know that sort of 10 minutes here, and as it has done today, that now becomes excitement, you know, the technologies working, we're into the flow of the conversation now I feel I'm, you know, I'm enjoying this space. So I think to your point, there is Yeah, absolutely, those those sort of physical reactions are quite normal, I loved what we did off air, just before we took a few breaths before we came into this conversation, that can be really good practice as well, whatever it is, that helps you to ground and center yourself. Again, I think if you're you know, if you're struggling or if you're feeling challenged with you want to do this, but it just feels a bit scary. Employee whatever grounding techniques, you have some type of for some that might be just going for a short walk, or whatever it is. Again, I think it's another opportunity to play to our strengths here. So if we've got habits that we've introduced, or if maybe we're developing habits in our life that are positive for us, to help us in certain certain situations, this is another opportunity for that sort of self growth opportunity for us to practice that. And it really is about developing good habits, and then stacking those habits. And I think through that you can not just creating podcasts, but creating any content with that. That's the how we do it.

Christine Li  33:07  
Thank you, Robert, you are a master teacher, thank you so much for sharing your heart and your talent and your experience with us. Today, I have learned a lot I've experienced a lot with you. I keep having the thought that you've missed a career in psychotherapy as a therapist, because you certainly have the sensibility and that talent of listening to people. So thank you for just bringing yourself on the show today agreeing to be on with me for this lovely conversation. Could you share with us who you might like to attract as clients and who should get in contact with you and what you can offer them?

Rob Lawrence  33:44  
Yeah, so the folks I tend to work with most of the time, and it does vary. So I'm always, I'm always open to an outside inquiry if you like. And if it's not me, I can probably connect you with somebody that might be a really good fit for, for who you are and what you do. So predominantly, the podcasts I work on are in the personal and professional development space. But that's actually it sounds like quite a narrow, niche or niche. But it's actually quite broad in the sense that that attracts business leaders, leaders of organizations, social enterprise, coaches, consultants, like yourself, Christine. So these people are often very proficient in their own discipline. So they will likely have many years of experience either as a business leader or as a coach or what have you. But they might be new to podcasting, and that's where I can help them. So the people I work with, I just really love working with and I learned so much from them. And it's because of their experience and their stories that I enjoy doing what I do so much because I effectively feel like I'm getting paid To do what I love doing anyway, which is playing with the technology, and also helping them to, I mean, I get tremendous satisfaction from helping somebody being able to solve a problem with somebody. And that collaboration, that connection. So yeah, as I say, I think is people that are looking to find more people that they want to connect with. So they've probably got a very good idea. In fact, they have got a very good idea of who it is that they're trying to reach. So a lot of the coaches I work with, they've usually got a very good idea of what they're good at coaching at, and they've got ideal clients in mind already. And the chances are that, in most cases, in my experience, they've been able to reach more of those types of people through audio, it comes as a surprise, I think, to some people, when we go on this journey together, that actually there's a whole world of people out there who predominantly educate and entertain themselves just through audio. So they're not watching YouTube, they're not reading blogs. And these tend to be people that are on the go, you know, they might be walking, commuting, gardening, cycling at the gym. But they want to be entertained, and they want to be educated at the same time. And often the folks I work with, they're the types of people they're trying to reach anyway. And so it's really helpful. It's really exciting for me to be able to help people to make that connection. So I hope that answers your question, Christine,

Christine Li  36:35  
it completely does. I want to back up with my recommendation that anyone who feels the inclination to work with Rob, you've got the right inclination, he's fantastic, as so kind and so professional, and so good at what he does. So thank you, again, Rob, for all of this. I know you also have a gift for our listeners. Could you describe what that is?

Rob Lawrence  36:56  
Yeah. So this was a really popular gift when my podcast first launched some cash now nearly eight years ago. And it was a little one sheet that I created for my audience based on a number of the conversations that I had had interviewing folks like Pam Slim that you and I both know. And based on the audience's reaction in terms of what they were looking for, and I summarized it onto this one sheet, and it's 33 ways to create a more prosperous life. So at the time, and the podcast has evolved since at the time when the podcast first started out, it was the main aim of the podcast was exploring this question of how do we create a living that we love doing doing what we love to do creatively. And I summarize sort of some of the key themes that came up and ended up with this list of 33. Curiously, which is a number which seems to show up in my life in in various different ways. And I sometimes tell people, that's my, my favorite record speed as well. So talking about listening experiences, I still enjoy listening to albums. I'm one of those people. So. So the number 33 works really well for me. And yeah, this was essentially a handout which I've given to like live workshops, and also to podcast listeners, and I got a really good response from it. So I just wanted to share that with your audience. Because I think most people will find something in there that's really useful. It's a nice little prompt, you can kind of stick it up somewhere that you can just see, you could just have it up for a couple of weeks, maybe and there might be as you as you have a glance at it, there might be something on there, which inspires you to take a different kind of action that day. So yeah, I wanted to share that with with you, Christine and your audience, as something to inspire them.

Christine Li  38:43  
Thank you so much. We've made a link so that you can get this free download. And that link is make time for success. podcast.com/rob, which is our OB and Thank you, Robert for that, again, it's make time for success podcast.com/rob For that list of 33 ways to create your prosperous life. That sounds wonderful. And Rob, thank you again from the bottom of my heart. And I look forward to our future collaborations. I'm sure there will be more.

Rob Lawrence  39:17  
Thank you, Christine. It's been an absolute pleasure.

Christine Li  39:20  
All right, everyone. That's another episode wrapped. I look forward to seeing you next Thursday. Again, thanks so much for being a listener of the Make Time for Success podcast. But thank you for listening to this episode of the Make Time for Success podcast. If you enjoyed what you've heard, you can subscribe to make sure you get notified of upcoming episodes. You can also visit our website maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com for past episodes, show notes and all the resources we mentioned on the show. Feel free to connect with me over on Instagram too. You can find me there under the name procrastination coach. Send me a DM and let me know what your thoughts are about the episodes you've been listening to and let me know any topics that you might like me to talk about on the show I'd love to hear all about how you're making time for success we'll talk to you soon!

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